Suspended vs. non suspended turntable

For what it's worth, Pierre at Mapleshade goes so far as to recommend replacing the springs on suspended tables with his brass cones - evidently another vote for non-suspended tables.

Dear Keith: I think that some way or other you already have different answers to your questions so maybe I will add " more of the same ", but I will do it anyway:

one of the best suspended TT example is the SME 30 I try it and it is very well isolated from internal/external unwanted vibrations/resonances/fast energy dissipation, I like it from an " audible level isolation performance ".
Iown some heavy mass non suspended TT's, two AS and the RX-5000 from MS, its quality level performance depend on the grade level of an add-on ( by your self ) isolation and I don't mean about rack types but the footers, the ones that come with those TT's are " terrible " for say the least and till you by-pass those own footers the quality performance is not good: I could say that is a poor performance for the price of the TTs.

I try very hard looking for the right or near the right footers/isolators till I find it through Audio technica pneumatic ones, I use it directly at the metal plynth and work very good but through the time and making " a non-expert tests " ( here we have to remember that the cartridge is a very sensitive micro that take micro-vibrations/resonances/noises that our ears can't detect but not because we can't detect it means those " noises " aren't there and we have to try to leave at minimum those " micro noises " to improve the quality sound performance level on the audio system. ) like hitting the rack ( with the stylus on a LP and volume at different high levels ) or hitting with my foot the floor I find that in both AS I can hear some thump level at the speakers so I decided to try something else and after several " try and error " I find that using those same AT pneumatic isolators along a 2" tiptoe ( at top of the At ) with the tiptoe "point/end " in touch with the metal TT plynth those sounds at the speker disappear totally, so it is in this way how are running my AS TT's and yes that " move " was/is a quality improve in the TT performance.
With the RX-5000 every thing is almost " ok " with out the tiptoes. My Luxman likes with the tiptoes inn.

Well, right now I'm running one of my Technics SP-10MK2 with a very simple wood type plynth ( atached to the SP10 base chasis ) of no more than 1.5" that is real function is for I can mount the tonearm, I put the AT pneumatic isolators ( with and with out tiptoes ) directly to the plynth and I can't avoid the thump/noise at the speakers, so I change the position/place of the AT pneumatic isolators instead on the wood plynth directly to the metal SP10 chassis ( in the lower/below part of the TT and with out tiptoes ) and the " noises " disappear, now the SP-10MK2 quality level performance is no less than fabulous!!!!

All these tell me that we ( users ) have to make " our work " at home because the TT builders don't do its " job " or at least not in the best professional way.

If you read somewhere ( example ) Micro Seiki and Walker recomended an additional platform ( for improve TT isolation ) to its TTs, how is this? when we pay " big big dollars " for those turntables.

Take any manufacturer TT website and read around and you only find ( including the one from Basis ): bla, bla, bla, bla, that means only that:bla blan nothing else that prove to us that bla bla!!!!, nothing that can prove/verify in a professional/technical way ( different enginnering level tests ) the TT isolation grade level where I can " see " the different TT mechanism to avoid different kind of internal/external vibrations/resonances/noises/ on their TTs, I think that all of them ( TT builders ) are avoiding of what it is a primary own responsability!!!.

IMHO I think that it is a shame of TT builders where we pay thousands and thousands of honest/clean dollars and no one of them make its work about or at least they don't share with their customers, I wonder why?

All these means that we are paying ( in the TT cases ) for an incomplete product about that subject!!!

IMHO I think and I'm sure that all those TT builders can/could make a better " job " that what are doing on the subject and I hope that if they do it in the near future that can help to everyoneto growing up in a better way trying to obtain a better quality level performance in any audio home system.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Raul, how do you say "blah" in Spanish? ;-)

"Getting pace or prat or liveness by moving the table beneath the cartridge is adding something to the music that's not in the grooves".....If this is actually true,then the particular table mfgr who designs "that" particular suspension deserves very few sales of that product!!!...Just like some arms,or cartridges,or any device has inferior or superior implementations,so DO the suspension designs as well.I doubt there is much movement in the Walker,Continuum,Rockport,the top Basis designs(Debut/Work of Art series),Blue Peal,Avid Acutus,SME's etc!All suspended designs!!ALL considered world class!!I cannot for the life of me,see how there is any platter/plinth movement beneath a cartridge,on "these" products,as a LP is spinning(has anyone actually measured this,or is it conjecture,and assumption?).....I've tried the cone route,and defeated the "superb" suspension of my SOTA COSMOS!The difference in performance(especially in bass power)was not even close.This was using a custom wall shelf,riveted into three 2x6 beams.We then tried the VPI TNT without a suspension,on a massive 300 lb floor stand,and compared it to an added air suspension.After that,we tried my friend's SOTA COSMOS,on an SRA rack,mounted on a concrete floor,with a Symposium Ultra platform beneath.Defeated the suspension,then with the "NEW" suspension employed on the series IV.Not close!!Once again,the suspension design was FAR superior in virtually every meaningful way!Each individual consumer should make their own choice,and really I have no stock holdings in any design,so my thoughts are simply just that...my personnal experience,along with some other friends.Whatever suits you is fine.-:)
This is not to say that a non suspended design cannot sound great(anyone wanting to give me a Kuzma REF can E-mail me,and hear my shouts of joy),but some analyticl thinkers may be overanalyzing the subject a bit. -:)
Best

It's not really over-analyzing. Moving the table, or allowing it to move, is exactly the principal behind a suspension. The idea is to sink the vibrations into the suspension, which I believe are eventually transfered into heat from the friction in the springs/air/fluid. The high mass solution ultimately results in the same product, heat. In either method it is possible to over-damp, under-damp, or damp just right. Sounds like Goldie Locks, but in simplest terms that's the idea.

I'm guessing los blah-mos since I get the impression turntable design is a masculine task. And besides, las blah-mas just doesn't sound right.