Raven v Walker. Colored v Accurate?


This post has been generated following Jonathan Valin’s recent review of the Raven AC-3/Phantom combination in TAS. What intrigues me is not that JV has been lucky enough to review and buy or have on permanent loan yet another world’s best product. A truly astounding strike rate for any reviewer it must be said. Rather, it is what JV readily describes as the colored sound of the Raven/Phantom combination and the apparent appeal of this sound compared with what JV described as the more accurate sound of the Walker that piques my curiosity. This is not, I hasten to add about the relative merits of either table or their arms. The intention is not to have a slug-fest between Walker and Raven owners.

What really interests me is how it is that a product that in the reviewer’s opinion more accurately conveys what is on the source material is perceived as somehow less emotionally satisfying than one which presumably exaggerates, enhances or even obscures some aspect of the recorded information, if one can accept that this is what colored sound or the product’s character is. It appears counter intuitive and the deliberation of the phenomenon is making me question my own goals in audio reproduction. These have been pretty much on the side of more accurate is better and more emotionally compelling with due consideration to financial constraints in my choice of equipment in achieving this goal.

On face value and if you can accept the hyperbole it appears that the colored is better route is a little like going to a concert and putting on a device that allows you to alter the sound you hear. You twiddle a couple of knobs, sit back with a smile on your face and say “Ah! That’s better, that’s what I want it to sound like” You like it but it’s not necessarily what the musicians intended you to hear.

It seems logical that the closer one can get to accurately reproducing every piece of information recorded onto the medium then the closer you should be able to get to the actual performance, together with all the acoustic cues existing at that performance. I am making an assumption here that the recording medium is actually capable of capturing these things in the first instance.

We have our 12 inch pieces of vinyl on the platters of two systems under evaluation. We are not in the recording booth. The musicians are not on hand to play the piece over and over so that we can compare the live sound to the master tape and even if we did every performance is unique so we can never compare a second or third live performance with the one we just recorded. How then can the accuracy of a turntable/arm/cartridge combination and its ability to convey the emotion of the recorded event truly be evaluated? Ideally we should at least have the master tapes at hand to play on the same system in which we are evaluating the TT’s. The comparison will of necessity still be subjective but the determination would seem to be more believable than if the master tape were not part of the evaluation. If the master tape gave the listener no emotional connection with the musicians then I would contend that there would be something fundamentally flawed in another part of the playback system.

So in evaluating the two combinations would the more accurate combination be the more emotionally appealing? I cannot see how it would be otherwise unless we just don’t like what has been recorded or the way it has been recorded, the musicians have not made an emotional connection with us and the slightly flawed copy is preferred to the original. Is this why God made tone controls?

I have used the words seems, appears and presume quite deliberately, not to have a bet each way but because I am cognizant of the fact that we are, in audio reproduction dealing with the creation of an illusion and creating that illusion with people who have varying levels of perception, different experiences and tastes, different playback media and different physical replay environments so the task at hand for audio designers, humble reviewers and even we poor consumers could not be more complex.
phaser
I don't think Halcro had any agenda regarding "the best",other than sincere enthusiasm for something(here the Copperhead)he is currently smitten with.Personally that is just fine with me,but I don't believe the intent was to persuade anyone to sell his/her current arm for the Copperhead.....Those with vast equipment experience(many here) take certain claims with a bit of healthy scepticism,BUT there are some(like me) who get enthused enough to file the input away for another time,when we "might" be looking to replace something.
This is how I view the well written review of the apparently superb(I have no doubt)Copperhead arm.
Of the experiences I have had,the modded Air Tangent/Titan-i combo was the best,by far,but I have no idea if it was the absolute best!
I believe Halcro(forgive my assumption if in error)did not relate the "absoluteness" of the Copperhead's superiority on the scale of "nothing could be better",other than the Cobra.I took away the implication of a stunningly good product,that reveals exactly what is hidden on my LP's.....
I "assume" other contenders can do "similar" things,like the Kuzma Airline.Another arm I am dying to hear,but am not holding my breath.Also,Kuzma has released another potential pivoting "winner",which is shown on the web-site.
From a turntable aspect,the Raven IS fabulous,as I heard two different and wonderful demos,by Jeff Catalano of High Water sound.Two different arms/cartridges,which each stood out in exemplary fashion.
For the "interested explorer" out there, there is a table that absolutely fascinates me,and happens to look amazing(an understatement)...it is the Rolf Kelch Reference!!!...Most likely very expensive(making the Raven a bargain),and with a long waiting period,BUT you "have" to see this table for yourself.An improved version of the amazing(I've heard it)Thorens Reference.Another classic design
Best.
Just one more small example of the murky nature of all this. In a recent listening session in a very evolved, very high end system not unfamiliar to some here, we changed out the support "cones" underneath the power supply for the motor controller for the turntable. How much more removed from the signal chain can you get? Well, the difference was between very good and unlistenable! So which is the sound of that component?

I can testify to the truth of Tim's statement, it was my system we were testing on.

Even more odd, it was NOT the Walker Black Gate controller and matching Walker Proscenium Black Diamond table responding violently to footer swaps under it's power supply. It was my rather ordinary Technics SP10 MK2 and it's factory supplied outboard AC/DC box.

What Tim did not hear are the interconnect cables I've compared since then, running between my SME 312S and Aesthetix Io phono stage. Each of these cables can seem as big a sonic swing as switching between the Dynavector XV1S, Air Tight PC-1 and Koetsu Jade Platinum cartridges.

I'm not saying you can make each cartridge sound like the other by just swapping cable, but rather the differences BETWEEN these cartridges are drastically altered by the tonearm cable. This to the point, that a wrong decision could easily be made about an arm, cartridge or even an equipment match.

Another variable is loading. If you terminate the Air Tight PC-1 into the typical input 47K ohm load, it's performance is very disappointing. Too much high frequencies, no bass and obvious distortion. Reset the load to 240 ohms and it's one of the two best cartridges I've ever heard.

I wish it were not so complicated, but it is. This is exactly why I am so hesitant to type in absolute answers in threads at Audiogon. There is much to consider to get remotely close to absolute. It turns out to be a continual learning process with small gains eventually adding up to big ones.
Halcro, I am referring to your answer to Sirspeedy. Even if we accept your contentious assertion that to get to the master tape you must have the Copperhead where does that leave the Cobra? I'm sorry but there simply cannot be two absolutes. It simply is illogical.

Did Continuum say to themselves " well I think we can improve on the Cobra and retail the result at 1/3 the price!" I don't think so. Wouldn't do much for the sale of Cobra arms. Without having listened to either I can concede that they may have inadvertently achieved this aim but as far as one reviewer you quoted, Michael Fremer is concerned they have come close to the performance of the Cobra but not exceeded it. If we were take Mr Fremer's opinion as fact(and I am not suggesting that we should do this) then the Cobra is your absolute and you are in fact not hearing all that is on your LP's via the Copperhead. He at least has heard both arms in his system and on a table of the same manufacture which should presumably be optimized for performance with each other.

Now it also may be possible that the combination of Raven AC-3 and Copperhead(leaving aside the cartridge interaction that you see as a non variable with the Copperhead) is such a symbiotic match that it transcends all other combinations in revealing the absolute truth on the LP. This may be the case but I tend to think the likelihood of it being so in all set ups and thus an absolute is not something I would be betting my house on.
Dear Albert: Do you want a better quality performance on your SP-10MK2?, if so then change all the internal/external electrical power cable from the wall socket through the Power supply, umbilical cord and inside the TT.

I already do it and it " works " great!!!!!!!!!

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.