First used turntable +- $20,000. Any suggestions?

Dear Maxx: All opinions are valid and reflect different point of view.

Looking to that Micro Seiki Agon add: this TT is not only a air vacuum bearing but with a air vaccum platter too ( both a very high desired TT design targets. ) that looks in very good shape and the seller is 100% trusty.
The turntable comes ( add price )with a very good tonearm ( MAX 237 ) that IMHO maybe one of the very best ever build, these Micro Seiki combination ( that by any standard is up to today any top other combination. ) is " only " 8K maybe less. Both items are very easy to set-up and when you do it stay in that way.

After that you have to choose for the best Phonolinepreamp that you can find, this analog link is perhaps the more critical and one that could make a paramount difference in the quality sound performance.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Piedpiper,
Yes you are right of course, you were speaking of TTs and I of a tonearm. I agree with what you say about the Walker, I thought of buying one once but instead threw out most of Reverchon's stuff, the quality of which, considering the price and all the hype, I would rather not speak of and modified the Goldmund Reference from ground up. In the course of this process I did add a motorised VTA adjuster, which though used rarely, can be put to excellent effect.
Cheers and happy listening,
Detlof

Piedpiper,

It's a matter of personal preference but I find the Walker to be analytical and the Forsell very musical. However, I understand that a lot of people like that analytical sound. It's very in vogue with the reviewers right now. That's why you see MBL's equipment getting such good reviews. Personally I think it's because all the reviewers are so old that the're deaf so they need to have that thin, bright sound so that they can hear the music.

As far as issues with it I am friends with someone who had many of them(read between the lines). He constantly had problems with the suspension, the crazy air pump, and that ridiculously heavy arm that pushed against the side walls of his records. The records were actually noisier after he played them.

Maxx1973,

Go for the Brinkman Balance. It's the only turntable I would upgrade to from my Michelle Orbe. Even though I love the Forsell I am not a tweaker and I don't want to have to make adjustments to the arm every month.

If you do get the Brinkman don't get their tonearm. Read my previous post about the comparison between my turntable and theirs. The Brinkman can be a little analytical if you don't get the right tonearm and cartridge. However, you haven't stated what kind of sound you like. Do you like things more musical or more analytical? If you want a very musical, lush sound then I would go with the Koetsu Jade cartridge and the Graham Phantom B-44 tonearm. Seriously you will be in heaven.

I would say first and foremost that the original poster should actually start not by spending money but by spending time - listening to a variety of combinations of tables/carts/arms/etc. So far we have no information on his tastes, system, and any 'philosophy' he has. Depending on his physical environment, there may be a substantial difference between a Brinkman Balance and an SME 20/2 and there is also the matter of taste. Some people have gotten extremely good results out of idlers on stonkingly large plinths with great arms attached. Some people are philosophically oriented towards designs with a suspension. Go figure... Until we have more information, this exercise simply becomes "pick-my-personal-favorite/dream-table/arm/cart-combo-for-20-grand."

While I agree with Detlof, Gregm, and others about the importance of set-up, I would also argue that learning to do so oneself is also critical. One cannot depend on the dealer (from whom one bought new) coming over every time one changes something (tonearm, cart, record mat, flimsy vinyl vs 200g vinyl).

I personally would recommend used because the cost of selling out that one and upgrading later is limited. There is a substantial learning curve to go up in any case, and if one is unwilling to throw oneself into the deep end (especially given "instant lifeguard" support provided by the Audiogon community in the form of neighborly support, listening groups, and expertise on the forum - evidence this thread (not to mention the archives)), spending a lot of money to get into really great analog sound is perhaps unwise in itself. Really great analog sound is always going to be more of a DIY affair than really great digital sound.

Personally, I like the Micro's air bearing (suggested by Raul). I also like the simplicity of a Verdier or a Galibier with two arm pods. My personal taste would tend to reducing the number of tweakable instruments (I don't want to tweak suspensions, air tanks, hose length/diameter/material, etc; just arm/cart and base).