SOTA vacuum or no?

Dear Downunder: +++++ " That said, there is a certain amount of life,flow or air that not using the outer ring gives to the music. Not sure if that "air" is also missing when you use a vacuum hold?? " +++++

That was one of my first impresions when ( many years ago ) I try for the very first time the Vacuum hold down record but I learn that that " air " was not a real sound in the recording but most a distortion part with out Vacuum.

The truest to the music is something that no other system I know can give you in the same natural way that do the Vacuum.
The quality sound reproduction with and with out Vacuum is not only an improvement but almost an order of magnitude against no Vacuum.

You have to try it to understand all its benefits.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Well,while on the vacuum subject,when I mentioned no noise issues,I was referring to no noisey LP's,though my pump runs dead quiet too!I'm talking CD player quiet.

I do have non vacuum using friends,and cannot go to the level that Raul has,in stating the difference is an "order of magnitude better".But I like a vacuum seal,if given the choice.

It IS technically "better",but I have to be a realist as well!I've heard superb set-ups with no vacuum feature,but it is one consideration,out of many.

Yes,I think SOTA makes a superb vacuum table(original thread subject),at really fair pricing,and they work for a LONG time,trouble free.The company is "now" making the best products they have ever put together.Really close tolerances,and gorgeous to the eye,especially the no longer standard issue Black Gloss Fountainhead plinth and vacuum pump housing,that I have.....Also,when Sota products are reviewed(particularly the "newest" Cosmos,which is in series IV already)it amazes me how incomplete the review usually is!!
This usually indicates the amount of time a reviewer has spent with LP replay,in their lives(or just how little space is allowed for in depth reviews these days),and it "means something"!...If you are new to LP spinning,you certainly will not cover all the bases,on a superlative table,if you review it.

I personally want to know about much of the design,and how it got there.Why certain material choices were made.Why a suspension,or not.Why a specific motor unit,or why a nested platter,or arm/pillar mount etc,etc!

Good Example: The review in HiFi Plus(which was the opposite of Stereophile,in how the reviewer liked the product)of the Grand Prix Monaco was a GREAT piece of descriptive writing/information!!I should know,because I read it(alot)during a day of jury duty,just sitting around!

This was a "thorough review",and because it was SO good,I "got it"(the point,not the table),and came to appreciate the product,for what it is(a great table)!!

It even got me so inclined as to seek out the "white paper" on the table,which was quite educational,and extremely revealing as to why "some" well thought of designs,"kinda stink",if one accepts the design criteria of the Monaco.

SO,when I view the "latest" work coming from the old/established/often overlooked SOTA,I have to laugh,as "these guys" have NOT been asleep at the wheel!!

They STILL make the use of Bob Fletcher's abilities,and he was a "real" scientist/designer.The new(actually ownership for over a decade)mfgr is a skilled machinest,to the highest degree!!Hand made,to the max!!
The latest stuff is in line with many virtues(though employeed differently)mentioned in the Monaco White paper(which I enjoyed reading)....Different philosophy,but just as valid in design execution,and performance!

Yet, one of the finest set-ups I have ever heard(just basic inner clamp over the spindle)was using the Big Basis Debut,to be completely honest!!...No vacuum,but OH,BOY did those big Infinity speakers come to life(using my own LP's).And I had heard the Infinity speakers many times before.

Just my two cents.

HI Raul

"That was one of my first impresions when ( many years ago ) I try for the very first time the Vacuum hold down record but I learn that that " air " was not a real sound in the recording but most a distortion part with out Vacuum"

How do you know what is part of the recording and what is not?? I hear "air" all the time if i listen to a live band.
There is no vacuum hold down of vinyl when masters are being pressed.

I am not here to argue vacuum or no vacuum hold down.

I would suggest each turntable designer has maximised his design to suit his table. eg no doubt a Basis or SOTA would sound better with vacuum hold than without - otherwise why offer it.
Other designs with no vacuum hold have equally impressive sound.