MC phono stage without transformer?


A newbie question:

I read a lot of 'reservation' about using an external MC step up transformer to increase the gain of an MM phono stage. But as I searched around for MC phono stages, I noticed that a lot of these actually have internal step-up transformers, some of these transformers are exactly the same as what some people used to make their external step-up.

So if transformer is no good, I should really be looking for an MC phono without the tranformer? Do these exist though?
viper_z
Eldartford, of course no-one should be surprised that I don't like transformers :)

I did, however, outline some of the difficulties that one faces, bandwidth, ringing (distortion) and hysteresis losses (yet another kind of distortion).

You can dance through the parameters, trying to dodge the silver bullet and some good compromise is available. For example, by sacrificing a little LF bandwidth, you can reduce hysteresis losses, but they will still be there. Ultimately you are still dealing with a compromise.

This is not to say that a phono section with enough gain to start with does not represent some sort of compromise. For example, I prefer the sound of tubes, and tubes have a reputation of making more noise. What I found is that you have to treat the tubes the same way you treat transistors: fully-differential, with proper constant current sources, in order to make them be quiet. I found that making the proper constant current source was a huge part of that recipe.

So- we can get them to be quiet enough with the lowest output cartridges and at the same time the phono section is easily transparent enough to easily hear the insertion of the best SUTs we can lay our hands on. Now we all know that at the phono input, connections are very critical so for our evaluations we had to solder everything in. What seems to be coming out of this is that the more complexity, the less bandwidth and the less transparency.

So we endeavored to build a simple phono section. It has only two stages of gain and employs differential passive EQ. I don't know how much simpler it can get, in fact I've seen a lot of MM stages that have more complexity.

I guess the point is that my dislike of transformers is not **just** because I'm an OTL manufacturer, it really stems out of having worked with audio transformers a lot (and while they have always had some nice advantages, such as ground isolation): they always have an audible artifact. I really wish they did not, but there appears to be nothing that can be done to change that. You just have to avoid them if you can, that's all.
...the more complexity, the less bandwidth and the less transparency
Words of wisdom!
Rauliruegas...The Signet transformer I once used was spec'd (to the best of my memory) flat from 5Hz to 100,000 Hz. I always wondered how they did this, but I certainly heard no bandwidth limitation.

Because the signal is so tiny saturation is not an issue. I don't know for sure, but I think that these transformers have no magnetic core. Hysterisis and nonlinearity would not occur with an air core.

I used several MC preamps without a transformer, but I never heard any sonic improvement. A disappointment.
I used several MC preamps without a transformer, but I never heard any sonic improvement. A disappointment.

Surely you aren't saying "heard some so heard them all"?
( And I didn't call you shirley! ;-) )

I've heard/owned a few with xformer and tube MC stages. None approach my current active (JFET) MC stage Alaap. Not even close!
Dear Eldartford: I owned Audio technica AT 1000T ( similar to the Signet. ) that had that spec but ( like the Signet ) with out any reference about deviation from flat, that btw it is almost imposible to been flat.

+++++ " I used several MC preamps without a transformer, but I never heard any sonic improvement. " +++++

There are some things why you or any one can't hear differences or improvements and even bad experiences about: one is that the own system colorations preclude to hear it, other could be that what you heard was not a good MC phonolinepreamp design, other could be a non-synergy system audio items, bad set-up, etc, etc.

I hope that in a near future you can have the opportunity to experience the right active high gain Phonolinepreamp, in the mid time you and me will enjoy what we have.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.