SME V, Tri-Planar or Phantom B-44

Dgad wrote:
"It is important to know how to setup a tonearm a use it over a period of time. A short test will not be an accurate measure of how the cartridge will sound. The Schroder takes patience & time to fine tune. Several hours. You need to live with it to get to know its sound. Not do a quick a/b test to know what is better. It is the same w. the Phantom which can be easily tuned with damping fluid over time to obtain the correct or preferred sound."
Whilst this is true, it can also be said of most components in the Hi-Fi chain.
Heradot has given some valuable first hand impressions of 4 competitive arms on the same turntable with the same cartridge.
It is simply illogical to discard these results by claiming that some of the arms 'COULD' have sounded better?
With this sort of caveat, no 'shoot-out' between Hi-Fi components will ever have any relevance.
Thank you Heradot for that valuable contribution!

First off,Hi Halcro...how are you doing?Best to ya!!Hope all is well...

OK,second(main)point...Dgad,I've been waiting for "this" thoughtful comparison for over two years.A very interesting post,and I have NO reason to doubt your findings,though I DO "hope" my new Series II Phantom is better than the Series I,which I did not own for long,so cannot comment.

The ONLY point of disagreement(I have a feeling you may understand this,and maybe agree in afterthought) I have with you is....

I believe that "Only" a few hours in voicing an arm/cartridge is grossly understated!!It seems that in order to get the best performance,over a wide range of LP's,one MUST spend some "fotzing around time" over a few listening afternoons!..

Of course,once the "audio pals" make their presence felt,the set up parameters sometimes need serious defending....against the one or two "golden eared" contrarians,who always make their superior hearing/knowledge of the LP's "true sound characteristics" known....Like we can't know this(about our own systems) on our own. -:)This IS the one thing that is "consistently" repeated in my little yenta group.Yet,I still love these guys.

Best

Dear Marco: Very interesting comparison you participate.

IMHO all those tonearms are really good ( including the V ) and the fact that the ZYX sounded better on the DaVinci does not means that this tonearm is a better one it means only that the DaVinci is a better ZYX match ( same for your Clearaudio TT tonearm comparison. ) in that audio system.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

I've got to agree with Raul!The arm/cartridge combination will absolutely be critical.

I've known some to think it blasphemy to feel the Ikeda could be bettered...with the right cartridge choice.However those cartridges were far heavier than the ZYX.The Ikeda will work best with a bit more mass,and fans of the arm give it what "it" wants.

The Titan-I I know very well.Alot heavier than the superb UNI,but I've only heard the Titan on an Air Tangent,and VPI 12.6 arm....A fabulous cartridge in either arm!

The Phantom(I installed one for a friend,and have listened extensively to the "series one" Phantom)is,as mentioned best voiced with alot of experiment with the damping fluid,but not nearly as sensitive to this as the Graham 2.2 was.Both great arms...with the 2.2 a bargain on the used market,as I've mentioned before.

I owned two SME's,but only used them with Koetsus.I remember liking both arms,but the Triplanar that replaced the SME was superior,even though I did not have it perfectly set-up.

All superb arms,and all will benefit greatly with the perfect cartridge match.

Funny thing,a well known dealer and importer of high end tables mentioned to me he felt the Davinci was inferior to many arms,due to "lousey bearings"!His words!!

Based on conversations with him,I don't believe "that" statement for one minute!!

Best

Halcro,

I am not discarding the results. BUt I did obtain different results w. the same/similar arms. (Schroder has different versions) and the same cartridge (both ZYX & Lyra). I do not seek to discount his results. But the Schroder is a very difficult arm to set up & requires more than patience. Every parameter changes everything all over. Once you set VTA, VTF changes, setting damping changes VTF etc, etc. Surely not an arm for everyone but IME it does something special that other arms don't do. This includes the SME & Phantom.

Now please explain how 2 people w. similar items get different results? Honestly that is all due to setup.

I will also tell another story that includes your name.
I heard at a dealer a Halcro/Maxx II/VTL preamp w. transparent cabling & EMM CDP. I honestly was not impressed and felt that I could expect much more.

I then heard at a friends house a EMM/Maxx II/Halcro amp/ but forget what preamp in a dedicated room. The sound was some of the best sound I ever heard. This simply goes to show setup is critical in knowing our evaluations, and taking my word or anyones elses word on these forums as the grounds for deciding a purchase can be a mistake. Reviewers have had strongly divergent opinions.

Back to phono questions, I have been able to get 2 different arms w. 2 different cartridges and 2 different phono stages to sound almost exactly the same. Switch the phono stage and instantly everything unravelled and the differences were starteling.