2008 RMAF – – – all things analog.

Dear Teres: I don't dismiss in anyway stylus drag, what I'm saying is that that stylus drag ( that certainly exist, no doubt about. ) from my point of view and in my examples: Walker/Technics TTs can't make a speed variation that you or any one also can say: ¡ hey that pitch change was due to the stylus drag !, that's all.

+++++ " to imagine that stylus drag would also be audible " +++++, of course is audible in many ways: tracking distortion, noises, etc, etc but the point is about changes in the platter speed stability due to the stylus drag.

What happen if some one give us a scientific measures ( why don'y you do that, you are a TT designer and I think must be interested about in a wide manner than me. ) about where we can prove/test that the stylus drag really affect in a way that everyone could hear it with out mistake, measures at different levels and in different conditions: like the ones I already posted.

My subject here is that " words " in this critical/precise subject are not enough to prove it. I don't know you or any one else but IMHO I need some tests/measures to be " true " of what is really happening down there.

For me is an important subject due that we already finish ( well almost ) our self tonearm design and we are on the cartridge and TT design. Right now we ( Guillermos and I ) don't have the time to go in deep for our self about but certainly we could send/give one of our TTs to Technologic University on México ( Science and Enginnering Division ) that was the one that already evaluate our tonearm bearing friction between other things.

IMHO and in this special subject what you think ( words ) or what I think ( words ) about means almost nothing about the real TRUE, I'm asking for this not a subjective approach. Of course that if you tell me: come here and hear the Teres top of the line TT and hear this speed un-stability ( pitch change ) that it is due to stylus drag, well this is a different approach and if not scientific could make a difference on what I'm talking about.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

i certainly agree with Teres that stylus drag is real and audible, it varies based on the complete tt system, it's noise floor and how flat the Lp is.

i listen to an Lp on the top belt driven tt's and then on the Rockport and there is a difference in musical foundation, flow, continuousness, and ease on peaks. there is no escapeing from the benefit of (near) perfect speed and stability. it is only in the comparing that you hear this.

this is not to say that overall a belt-driven tt might not be preferred to a direct drive; but all other things being equal (which they almost never are) a properly executed direct drive has the advantage. 'properly executed' is the tough part.

i'm not qualified to argue theory but i know what i hear.

Teres would be in a great position to talk about this issue as he builds tt's both ways that are otherwise the same.

Dear Mike : I'm not saying that the stylus drag is not audible certainly is what I'm saying is that I can't say ( only in a subjective way with out scientific measures ) that due to stylus drag a TT platter change its speed, that's all.

Now, like I told to Chris if you tell me that your Rockport platter sometimes and due to stylus drag ( not because other kind of source like LP imperfections: LP not flat. ) " suffer " changes in its speed well I want to hear it!!!!!! if that really happen is fine with me and for that very first moment that " myth " disappear from my mind, easy.
Mike, that " fact " is happening in your Rockport? and if it is happening : how do you know is for the stylus drag?. Btw, Chris same questions for you.

Thank you in advance for your answers.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Sorry: +++++ that due to stylus drag a TT platter change its speed and that speed change is audible, that's all " +++++

this is how it can read it.

Raul.

Dear Mike : I'm not saying that the stylus drag is not audible certainly is what I'm saying is that I can't say ( only in a subjective way with out scientific measures ) that due to stylus drag a TT platter change its speed, that's all.

Dear Raul; i would assume that top level belt driven tt's have similar performing arms, plinths and even suspensions to the Rockport. some have vacuum hold down and even an air bearing. but none have the Rockport motor, controller or servo. therefore i do relate much of the fundamental difference in the performance to the speed issue.

i used to have the Rockport Sirius II which was belt driven....as good as it was in many areas......the dd Sirius III is quite a bit better. better in ways i've not heard other tt's match. my Technics SP-10 Mk2 and Garrard 301 do have elements of the dd magic of the Rockport.

does stylus drag result in speed changes? something is happening which gives dd a big advantage. what other factor could do that?

Now, like I told to Chris if you tell me that your Rockport platter sometimes and due to stylus drag ( not because other kind of source like LP imperfections: LP not flat. ) " suffer " changes in its speed well I want to hear it!!!!!! if that really happen is fine with me and for that very first moment that " myth " disappear from my mind, easy.
Mike, that " fact " is happening in your Rockport? and if it is happening : how do you know is for the stylus drag?. Btw, Chris same questions for you.

it is hard to isolate individual design issues unless you are like Chris and are making design choices and isolating drive approaches.

in the last year i have invested in reel to reel tape decks. i have an EAR modified Technics RS-1700 which sounds very very good. it's the same one that Philip O'Hanlon was playing 'The Tape Project' tapes on at RMAF. i recently recieved my Studer A-820 RTR machine after considerable time and expense in reconditioning.

again; as good as the EAR Technics is (and the fact is it probably has better output electronics)....the Studer makes it sound broken due to it's amazing speed accuracy and stability.

i'm no expert; but it seems to me that getting the speed right, and i mean really, really right....... is the hard part and by far the most important part in music reproduction in the analog domain.