2008 RMAF – – – all things analog.

Dear Mike : I'm not saying that the stylus drag is not audible certainly is what I'm saying is that I can't say ( only in a subjective way with out scientific measures ) that due to stylus drag a TT platter change its speed, that's all.

Dear Raul; i would assume that top level belt driven tt's have similar performing arms, plinths and even suspensions to the Rockport. some have vacuum hold down and even an air bearing. but none have the Rockport motor, controller or servo. therefore i do relate much of the fundamental difference in the performance to the speed issue.

i used to have the Rockport Sirius II which was belt driven....as good as it was in many areas......the dd Sirius III is quite a bit better. better in ways i've not heard other tt's match. my Technics SP-10 Mk2 and Garrard 301 do have elements of the dd magic of the Rockport.

does stylus drag result in speed changes? something is happening which gives dd a big advantage. what other factor could do that?

Now, like I told to Chris if you tell me that your Rockport platter sometimes and due to stylus drag ( not because other kind of source like LP imperfections: LP not flat. ) " suffer " changes in its speed well I want to hear it!!!!!! if that really happen is fine with me and for that very first moment that " myth " disappear from my mind, easy.
Mike, that " fact " is happening in your Rockport? and if it is happening : how do you know is for the stylus drag?. Btw, Chris same questions for you.

it is hard to isolate individual design issues unless you are like Chris and are making design choices and isolating drive approaches.

in the last year i have invested in reel to reel tape decks. i have an EAR modified Technics RS-1700 which sounds very very good. it's the same one that Philip O'Hanlon was playing 'The Tape Project' tapes on at RMAF. i recently recieved my Studer A-820 RTR machine after considerable time and expense in reconditioning.

again; as good as the EAR Technics is (and the fact is it probably has better output electronics)....the Studer makes it sound broken due to it's amazing speed accuracy and stability.

i'm no expert; but it seems to me that getting the speed right, and i mean really, really right....... is the hard part and by far the most important part in music reproduction in the analog domain.

Raul, Stylus drag does affect platter speed. I am sure the the effect is small enough that it would be extremely difficult to measure. There is plenty of evidence that suggests that it is audible, but nothing that I would consider proof. A scientific measurement would be interesting but would tell us nothing about audibility. Only our ears can tell us that. The problem is that there is no practical way to remove the affects of stylus drag without changing other system parameters. So it is unlikely that we will see a definitive answer to the question anytime soon.

I see the issue of stylus drag as a well grounded theory because there is plenty of empirical evidence that supports it.

Dear Mike: +++++ " but it seems to me that getting the speed right, and i mean really, really right....... is the hard part and by far the most important part in music reproduction in the analog domain. " +++++

Absolutely true: a must to have!! this " simple " fact makes a paramount difference on the enjoy level of music home system reproduction.

Right now I'm looking for a Studer A-80 that some one is offering me, this guy show me that machine running against a Tandberg one and like in your case no contest against the Studer where the speed stability is astonishing.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Dear Chris: +++++ There is plenty of evidence that suggests that it is audible, but nothing that I would consider proof. A scientific measurement would be interesting but would tell us nothing about audibility. Only our ears can tell us that. " +++++

Agree, I know that the subject is very complex maybe more that I can understand.
Anyway what you and Mike argue about give us a better understanding on the stylus drag issue.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Every post here misses the most important and overlooked point in this discussion of speed accuracy. While it's a laudable and important goal, fetishing on speed perfection as the sole goal of turntable design misses that the eccentricity of virtually every record you own will produce greater effective speed error than any speed deviation found in a properly executed design, regardless of whether it's belt, direct drive, idler wheel or whatever. Records and record playback is a terribly imperfect technology. That it still sounds the best despite the imperfections is miraculous. If you want perfection get a CD player.

---Michael Fremer