SP10 Mk II vs Mk III

Dear Albert: Like I say I don't want to argue about but you can be totally sure that I have answers to your questions/dude, one of that answers is that my audio system perception habilities/skills/tools are different from yours: I can make/hear things that you can't imagine and not because I'm something " special " NO it is only that my audio self " training " through many years ( this is a discipline by it self. ) give me that kind of shiklls like I'm sure you have skills on many other audio " areas " that I don't.

Now, I'm not saying that you or any one is wrong I'm saying just: try it and if you don't like it then come back where you are today, is so difficult to understand this?.

I'm only sharing with you an opportunity to improve ( or not ) what you have now: is it a " crime " to share my experiences about?, you have a dedicated thread on the SP-10 subject where you are doing the same: sharing experiences.

Now, maybe you don't want to try it: that is fine not all people likes to take the effort to " explore " alternatives but like with the MM/MI subject there are people that likes to " discover " what is all about.
Albert I'm a person that does not like to have to many " holes " in my audio knowledge so if I can " sealed " some of those ( many ) holes " exploring " about then I will do it.

IMHO I think is worth to try it.

I respect your opinion about the " validity " of my comments where there is a difference with your comment: I already try /hear/herad the naked alternative ( like the no-naked ones. )and you don't.

The " validity " of any one experiences are a very controversial subject but there are some cases where that " validity " is more easy to confront/appear, example: at least two person in this thread ( you are one of them ) make statements/comparison of two different TT's ( same cartridge and same system. ) where the tonearm was different for that comparisons: which is the " validity " of those comparisons? , IMHO almost no real/precise " validity " here due to that " heavy " difference in tonearm in each TT.

Could/can this means that both of you lose the " validity " on your opinions?, certainly not: the " validity " of each one opinion is a more in deep subject that that kind of " faulty " opinion/TT-comparison.

Please don't be up-set with what I post/posted elsewhere, you can be sure that that never is my attitude.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Skills to pay the bills! That's what I'm talking about! do a little dance, make a little love, get down tonight. Shioot 8^).

Anyhow enough silliness I have a sp10 mkII in the buff just hanging out, I guess I'll fire it up and see. It is slated for slate so it will be a nice comparison...that deserves another 8^)

Here's the thing. If you fire up your SP10 MkII while it is just sitting naked on a shelf, you will see that IT will "do a little dance" (altho I never saw one make a little love). It does a little dance because of Newton's 3rd Law of Motion, and because of the high torque generated at start up for which force there is an "equal and opposite" reaction, as Newton told us. The job of the plinth is to soak up that force and stabilize the system. After start-up, the torque needed to keep the speed stable will be much less, so Raul could argue that a high-mass plinth is not needed once the correct speed is attained. However, I think a well built plinth dissipates vibrational energy that can otherwise color the sound. However, there's no harm in trying Raul's idea.

I actually tried the naked approach before, about more than 10 years ago. I had a small piece of 3/4" particle board attached to the upper right hand corner of the stock chassis acting as a cantilevered armboard and that's it. The turntable was just sitting on the table by its belly with four stock small rubber pucks. It was pretty naked, think of a naked person wearing a right hand glove. I had an MMT arm at the time, I think.

It didn't sound all that hot because I remember later on the same arm was mounted on a McCurdy radio station metal frame type of plinth and sounded better than the previous set up. And my custom butcher block plinth also sounded better than the naked approach but I had a different arm so that comparison is probably not valid. I guess I can always try it again with a different tonearm, like one of my Audiocraft arms.

All I am saying is that I am not convinced no plinth is better than having plinth. Just from a pure physics stand point, the SP10 has so much damn torque that you would think you really need something massive to hold down the turntable to sink all that vibration. Didn't Mark Kelly tell us that Sansui experimented something like this about that return torque that's causing the turntable cabinet to color the sound? From my experience with the naked approach, the set up did have that typical Technics clinical sound so I would imagine having a massive plinth is the right approach to high torque DD turntable like the SP10. I am not sold on your approach but, hey, if it works for you, great, because that certainly saved you ton of money on plinth. But before I try the naked plinth thing again, I can't wait to mount the naked motor to a slab of slate!

Dear Albert: +++++ " making a comment like that with absolutely no foundation. " +++++

+++++ " How anyone can audition a system with everything..........and without your own version or "mod" of the table is beyond me. " +++++

+++++ " but when you post something so off the wall as you have, I begin to question your test methods .." +++++

I receive several emails on the subject since your post with different flavor opinions and I need to clarify on the subject trying to put a little more light on this " controversy ":

like I posted each one of us have ( sometimes ) similar, different and especial skills on " audio culture " ( each one audio learning curve ) where some of those especial differences comes on each one because we each one choose to " cultivate " in especial some audio areas that are more interesting to each one of us.

Well, I want to write some experiences ( even one that you live with me ) to show the skills I'm talking about:

been in San Diego with a very nice audio friends we were hearing differents Phonolinepreamps ( in at least two different audio systems. ) between them the Dartzeel and Esential 3160.
In a specific time/moment we take each one opinion on the quality performance of those Phonolinepreamps and I remember what I say on the Dartzeel : that both frequency extremes were not natural but manipulated on purpose to give the Dartzeel signature sound, this was/happen 3-4 months before the Dartzeel review on Stereophile where I confirm ( by the product measurements. ) exactly/precise what 3-4 months before was my opinion on what I heard in the Dartzeel that was surrounded ( in SD. ) of " unknow " audio items to me and where I was traveling around USA.
We discuss for hours our each one finding on what we heard there and I can say that we have very good time in that unforgetable friend's meeting.

in other trip in USA I visit to Steve Doobins and for that days I don't have almost no reference/know-how on the strain gauge cartridge/system that he own so I was not prepared of what I shall hear there.
My reaction was very fast: impressive just at the begining but after a few minutes and especialy on the highs and tonal balance I say Steve that I don't like it and I tell him that I think that the " trouble " for me was not on the cartridge but on the cartridge electronics.
Months latter of this strain gauge experience I learn almost all on that cartridge and again confirm what I heard and what I say to SD that time, that was IMHO a faulty design.

other sample of this kind of skills you live it with me in your audio system last time I was there.
you put me first music through CDP and 30-40 minutes latter switch to your analog rig ( cartridge: PC-1 ) and you remember that after few minutes I ask for a change the load impedance ( that was around 500 and change it to around 100 ohms. ) because what I was hearing was not so good, things improve with that load impedance change.

Latter ( 10 minutes more ) I told you that something was wrong with the system because the right output level on the speaker system was lower than the left side, you check that the volume be in the right way in the preamp and heard again and confirm that the output on thr right side was lower through analog because on digital everything was right on target.

Not only you was hearing the system with out take in count this " problem " but ( in the afternoon ) six of your member group either take in count ( I check that the volume in your preamp where even/similar position. ).

In other place with a different system I made a comment to the audio system owner: Sir you have bad bass resonances here and he told me that no one ever of his audio friends ( including audio dealers ) never told him any comment on this problem that now and after my comment he take in count, I have to say that this audio system is in a dedicated room with 200K+ on audio equipment.

All these samples/experiences/comments can tell you that I'm training in deep for make that kind of " work ", this skill does not comes by free or random it is a hard and time consuming training over the years. Am I prefect on this regard? certainly not ( far from there ) but this learning skill is what give me the knowledge/kno-how to evaluate my audio system quality performance and through many changes on it discern what is a real improvment change and what was only a different only.
This skill is something that any one can develop, I'm still in this learning curve.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.