2. analog
  3. 1230674433

No deep bass or highs: VTF or VTA issue?

Background:

I've been using JM Lab Micro Utopia monitors and recently added a sub (via Bryston outboard crossover). Used my music server to dial in the sub (for convenience) and after dialing it in I noticed that my analog rig is not sounding anywhere as good as my digital.

I tried comparing a few LPs to their digital counterparts and in comparison the LPs sounded dark and sluggish.

Relevant equipment:

Analog:
- Dynavector XV-1s
- Scoutmaster / JMW 9 Signature / SDS / Super platter etc
- Aesthetix Rhea Signature with NOS tubes

Digital:
Music server -> Benchmark DAC

I used a Mint tractor to align the cartridge, and the VTF on the XV-1s is around 2.0g. I had never done anything about VTA, so I tried raising it. It got somewhat brighter, but now in comparison it lacks deep bass AND the highs of the digital version. Switching back and forth it's like the vinyl is just midrange (that's an exaggeration to illustrate my point).

I also have a Manley Steelhead phono stage; I should probably swap that with the Rhea to make sure the phono stage isn't the culprit but my gut tells me that it's the setup.

Any advice on what adjustments to try would be much appreciated.

Thanks.
madfloyd
madfloyd OP
411 posts
 
Dan: thanks for the white paper, I'll digest it. When I mentioned 'shimmering', I meant the decay of the cymbals (as they vibrate). I think I know what you mean by digital shimmer; I used the term incorrectly.

Dre: I really appreciate your post. I'm just now switching back to the Manley again and have been wondering about the interconnects. I'm using a Pro-ject gauge (it appears the same as most other digital gauges I've seen - perhaps all made in the same Chinese factory?).

I'll try your suggestions. Btw, what happens when a cartridge 'mistracks'? I assume it would be obvious when it happens, but haven't experienced that yet so I'm curious.

Thanks.
Ian
dougdeacon
3,338 posts
 
Ian,

Excellent advice from Dre. Just trying 1.80g isn't enough, since no two cartridges are exactly alike. You need to keep going lower until you loose bass/dynamics and/or reach the mistracking point, then start moving VTF back up in very small (.01-.02g) increments.

Mistracking sounds like:
- if slight - a trace of fuzziness on strong, high frequency notes
- if severe - short bursts of static-like noise, like high frequency “farts” (sorry!), provided that they’re in synch with dynamic peaks or strongly held notes and not in synch with LP revolutions (which would tend to indicate pressing flaws in the vinyl)

dre_j
159 posts
 
Ian,

I’m sorry I called you Floyd based on your forum tag.

Your gauge is one of the typical ones used and it should work well. To test the gauge (crudely) you can place a dime on the gauge. The dimes after 1965 should be in the ballpark of 2.268 grams. I checked 7 dimes plus had a friend check another 10 to 12 and we both came up with around 2.26-2.28 average with a very small number reading 2.29 and 2.24. So, somewhere in that range will give you a general idea if the scale is working properly. I suspect it's OK.

Mistracking can take on many forms depending on the type of music being played. So I don't take this thread off topic, I'll just state that mistracking is an artifact of the stylus not staying in contact with the groove wall. This results in audible breakup of the sound being reproduced. Sometimes it may favor one channel over the other. In other instances, it will mistrack in both channels during the same high velocity amplitude level (a function of anti-skate). In any event, gross mistracking will be clearly audible. If you want to hear what some types of mistracking sound like, take an old LP that you don't care about and lighten the tracking force on your arm until you begin to experience a distortion (fuzzy, humming, crackling sound) like presence added to your music that you know is not supposed to be there. This is not all encompassing of the types of audible mistracking by any means. There are probably a few threads on the forum that discuss this phenomena in more detail. Again, so I don't cloud your thread with a new issue, I'd suggest reviewing one of the threads already here on the forum.

A side bit of information for you: I played all three copies of Aja that I have and I hear the missing information (Cymbal decay) clearly. In fact, the decay is extended so much that it never completely goes away before the next cymbal strike during the opening of Deacon Blues.

Hope this helps,
Dre
madfloyd OP
411 posts
 
Thanks again for the replies. I lowered the VTF to 1.75 and it's tracking fine. I may try it even lower for the education (especially now with the explanation you provided). Funny, it sounded real good (playing Aja again) but then I made the mistake of listening to the digital version again and it still sounded much airier.

I took a break for a while, but now I'm going to play around some more...
madfloyd OP
411 posts
 
Just learned something else: when I read that VTF and VTA were interactive, I thought that meant that an adjustment to one may mean that a different value is required on the other. I didn't realize that adjusting the VTA would literally change VTF! I'm now tracking at 1.5 (well below the 1.8 spec) and still have bass.... should I keep going?

I tried a couple dimes on my gauge and I'm getting 2.300g.
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