Tonearm without off-set

Thanks Thom. I really enjoyed reading all your posts in AG.

Over the years I have owned or still own: Grace 707, Lenco, LE1, PU2, Alphason HRS100, Rega RB250, Well Tempered, PU3 and Aro. So I am not new to pivoted off-set arms or has anything against them.

You are absolutely right that tangential alignment accuracy is very important. I can hear the difference you mentioned. I even slotted my Aro head shell which only had two holes so that I get it perfect.

The thing that most interest me in trying non off-set straight arm (which is only one of the 3 arms that I am intending to use in my system), is the fact that the cantilever will not be subjected to inward force (or even stress) created by off-set arms. What I am interested to know is how much more we can gain from a cartridge when there is no inward force caused by off-set arms.

Perfect tangential alignment aside, there must be benefits from having a "less" stressed cantilever.

I am now almost certain to have a 12inch arm with both off-set and non off-set straight arm wands. Both will be exactly the same except for the head-shell geometry. (So Johnbrown, I do actually listen to other people's opinion.) I will report my findings if there is any interest on this topic.

It really surprised me that I did not get any response from people who have tried or taken this path before. I was really hoping to hear from someone with actual listening experience of a non off-set arms. They have been manufactured before and I am sure there are some still in service out there.

The RSA-1 has somewhat of a cult following for those who do not mind fiddly toys. This arm has no offset and the tangential alignment is way off, but it is acknowledged by some to be a great tracker with very low distortion (soundwise). I will also be getting one of this to see what the buzz is all about.

Don't know if what I am intending to do will be any good, but I am certainly going to enjoy the experience.

Later.

Dear William62: +++++ " Don't know if what I am intending to do will be any good, but I am certainly going to enjoy the experience. " +++++

any audio experience is a learning one and certainy could be fun.

Now, why exist a tonearm?, IMHO ( like the TT ) is a tool that the cartridge needs to recovery the information that was/were recorded on each groove on each LP tracks.

Which is de " ideal " way for the cartridge can/could recovery that recorded information?, IMHO that is through a linear tracking tonearm that in theory has no tracking error ( angle ) over the LP.

Well, the main subject/target on that tool name it " tonearm " is to help the cartridge to recover the recorded info with no tracking error ( of course, between other important things ).

IS there other form/way to help to the whole cartridge job different than a linear tracking tonearm?, yes, one of that forms/ways is a pivot/ed tonearm.

will it be any trade-offs using a pivot tonearm against a linear tracking one?, yes, any other tonearm form/design means tracking angle error against cero traking angle error on the linear tracking tonearms.

So, what to do if we want a different/pivot tonearm?, well some people like Baerwald, Loefgren, Stevenson and others made scientific studies to achieve/optimize how to put at minimum that tracking angle error for the cartridge really can to take out the recorded information with almost no ears perception distortions trying to even the linear tracking ( in theory ) cero distortions.

And this was the main subject on those " tonearm projects and was from them that the terms " effective length, overhang and offset " comes out.

Today normally we align the tonearm/cartridge through Baerwald or Loefgren ( where Baerwald has a slightly higher distortion over the LP but the inner grooves against the Loefgren ) trying to have the lowest distortions and the highest quality performance.

Any one of us ( including you, according with what yu posted ) knows that very small deviations on/out that " ideal " alignment alternatives makes a difference in the quality performance and almost always for the worst.

Now, you don't want to make a " small/slightly " change but a " big " one with the non offset tonearm, this fact makes that what you hear will be a far far away " sound " of what is in real in the recording with a lot of distortions, no doubt about because is a totally wrong " road, if you like it or not ( what you are hearing ) it is another matter and does not change the fact that is wrong: you can't change the geometry rules, well at least I think ( with all respect ) you are not a " new " whole geometry proposal scientist man.

If we analize all the different parameters on the tonearm/cartridge alignment/set-up like: VTA/SRA/VTF/overhang/Azymuth/anti-skate/etc, probably the less/least important is the anti-skate and you want to make a " huge/great " trade-off changing the main tonearm target for the " less " important one!!!!!

Have fun.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Dear William62: I hope that the tonearm designer/dealer already give you the precise indications for the cartridge/tonearm/TT set-up that if you can please share with us.

The other thing that I forgot is that I hope that that tonearm was free of charge to you due that it is certainly useless in a serious way other than " have fun ".

I wish I can/could have the real " perfect " tonearm some day!!, till that " coming " day I have to choose in the better way my trade-offs about.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Raul, thank you for taking the time to write. You are a passionate man I could tell. More power to you.

Yes, yes and yes. Alignment is very important - even paramount you would say, but no one has actually touched on:

The inward force that "may" stress the skinny skinny cantilever that is inherent in off-set arms.

Some suggest not using anti skate, but it does not make the inward force go away.

So my big question is:

Will the benefit of a "less stressed" cantilever outweigh a perfectly aligned cartridge that has inward stress imposed on its cantilever?

The cantilever is the weakest part of the arm cartridge system. By eliminating undue stress on the cantilever must be a good thing eh?

I don't know, which is why I am intending to find out. I was also encouraged by the reports from several heavy weights that the RSA-1 which is a non off-set arm - performs flawlessly despite "bad" tangential alignment.

I do not write often these days in vinyl forums as I have found most of what I am looking for in the archives or my personal experience. But on this subject, I have found nothing in any forum.

Like you I am passionate and feel the need to explore, even if it is beyond other people and my comfort zone.

Thanks again Raul. In time I will reveal more madness for us to discuss. You're the man.

Later.