Koetsu vs Dynavector


I am looking at new (well new to me anyway) cartridges for my turntable. I have found a couple of interesting candidates but given that cartridges are one of the hardest things to purchase because of the problems of arranging home trials, I am interested in other peoples opinions. I am looking at the Koetsu Urushi's (either a Vermillion or a Black) or a Dynavector Te Kaitora Rua or XV1. I realize there is a bit of a price spread at normal retail but there are some demo issues that level the field a bit. My system is as follows Oracle Delphi MkIV with a highly modified Rega arm running into a modified Mod Squad Phono Drive. This all runs into a Sonic Euphoria Transformer based volume control. The amp is a custom tube amp based on the 6L6 tube (using NOS Tung Sol 5881 at the moment). This puts out twenty watts of PP power to a pair of Quad ESL 63. The cables are a mix of Homegrown Audio silver interconnects with Eichman silver RCA jacks and Analysis Audio Silver speaker cables.
My musical preferences lie in the smaller scale more introspective sphere on this system (I have a Altec Lansing based horn setup for rocking out). Anything from Frank and Ella to Johhny Cash to Bob Dylan to Dianna Krall. I also love the instruments that share the vocal sound. I gravitate to cello, saxophone and trombone over guitar and piano. I want to here the tone and texture of the voice as my first priority and timing a bit further down the line. My listening room is a bit on the large side (30' x 50' x 25') and has a very live acoustic. It has polished concrete floors and 115 year old plaster walls (I live in an 1893 Methodist church).
I welcome any opinions but I am mostly looking for people with actual hands on experience with either the Koetsus or the Dynavectors.

Thanks
Dan
djeickme75
I really have to laugh at all the out of hand dismissals of the Mod Squad as a phono stage.

First of all I doubt that most people have ever heard it as it was not a product with large distribution, so I am not sure how qualified most people are to speak on it's merits and likewise weaknesses.

Second, if we take it that most people are basing their opinion (and my sincerest apologies to anyone who has had significant experience with the unit and has made comments) on something other than actual first hand experience, I wonder where these opinions are coming from. It certainly isn't that people are basing them on the published reviews. The only review that I have found pitted the Mod Squad against the cult classic John Curl Vendetta. This was in Stereophile in January 1989 and was written by John Atkinson. In the review he clearly states (and the review in on Sterephile's website) "The main audible difference between the two phono preamplifiers was caused by noise". He admits that the Mod Squad is very slightly noisier with very low output MC cartridges than the Vendetta but that the noise is only obtrusive when music is not playing in a silent room. He then goes on to catalogue the various strengths of each stage and for every area that the Vendetta wins the Mod Squad wins another. There is clearly nothing in this review to suggest the Mod Squad is a second class citizen.

I wonder if it is just that the phono stage is old. If it were a CD player I would concur whole heartedly that it can't keep up with current players but in phono stages (and really in amplification in general) this can't really be said. Many of the "great" phono stages of that era like the Vendetta and certain Counterpoint models have gained a cult status and are closely guarded by there owners. If we accept that the Mod Quad might just be a member of this class, then one must also dismiss those legendary stages as subpar as well. Just because something is old doesn't mean it is less good. Think of the Japanese FM tuners of the 1960's and 1970's. You are hard pressed to match the classic Sansui's and Kenwood's with the best of todays tuners (and certainly can't come close to a value comparison). The phono gear from the late eighties was many companies swan song in terms phono gear (or at least that is what they thought at the time). They thought that the LP was dead so they threw all the resources they had (best parts, full balance of accumulated knowledge, etc) at making the "last great" phono gear. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the phono products from this era.
Dear Musicfile: Not the Bronze but the Black and not in my system and I have to say that is very good performer and the Bronze I understand is almost the same cartridge and I could say it is a good performer too.

I'm interested on your cartridge quality performance, if you can email me when already " settle-down ".

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
Dear Dan: Please don't laugh you posted in your thread: +++++ " I welcome any opinions ...." +++++, so try to honor your word.

Many years ago I have the opportunity to heard several times ( audio friend ) the Mod Squad De Luxe with medium output cartridges and was a good item.
You posted: +++++ " The Zu is a bit of a challenge for the phono stage but it seems to get by without to much trouble but I will admit that I don't have any room to spare on gain.... " +++++, well one of the Koetsu are lower on output than the ZU and in the other hand and with all respect IMHO both the Koetsus and XV-1 deserve a better " treatment " that the one that can give your phono stage.

Anyway, is your money and if buying a 4K low output MC cartridge to run on your today phono stage makes you happy then be happy, everyone deserve it.

Dan, you ask and my answer is an honest one trying to help you to achieve what you are looking for in the best way according my knowledge about.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

I'm not saying that your unit is " second class " as you point out: what I'm saying is that those " first class " cartridges deserve a better " treatment " .
I own both the XV-1 and Koetsu Rosewood. Both are wonderful musical cartridges.
The dyna is a little more dynamic than the rosewood and has more extension in the upper frequencies ( not a lot but easily noticable). the dyna is more neutral top to bottom, whereas the rosewood has a liitle presence in the upper mids which project's some forwardness compared to the dyna. the rosewood has a little warmth in the mid bass that the dyna does not have.
the rosewood does help on some HOT recordings by being a little more relaxed in the upper frequencies.

An Ortofon SPU would be ideal for your vocal and small scale jazz tastes if you have a tionearm with removable headshell.
As I said in my post, I welcome the opinions of those who have had direct experience with the Mod Squad. I am simply commenting on the general trend in these posts for people to make broad ranging comments based on little, if any actual experience with a product. For those who this is not applicable to, feel free to comment but a comment with some "meat" more welcome. Simply saying that a product is bad is of no use at all. Do you think it is a compatibility issue? Do you think it is a sound quality issue? etc. I would also say that the personal attacks on my character are not welcome. I never attacked any individual in my postings. I simply commented on the general flavour of some of the postings.

Now on to specifics. The Zu has an output of 0.3mV. The cartridges that we have largely been discussing (the Koetsu Urushi and the Dynavector XV1s) have this much or more output. The only cartridges that I mentioned that have less are the Vermillion at 0.2 and the Kaitora at 0.26. So at least half the cartridges are of greater output so gain should not be an issue with them. For the other two, I again reiterate that a compatibility issues is very different than a quality issue. I have also clearly said that I agree that overall gain might be an issue with the lowest output cartridges. I doubt anyone is implying that phono stage quality can be simply gauged by overall gain, so perhaps we can stop dismissing the phono stage simply as having too little gain.

I would suggest that $4000 on a cartridge rarely makes any sense. This is not however what we are really discussing here. I have said that I am looking at a variety of cartridges at demo, used and closeout prices. This makes the cartridges much closer to $2000-2500. I don't agree that in such a price context, the cartridges that I have mentioned are out of line for the system that I have.

I would also argue that the typical idea of the turntable being the most important piece followed by the arm and then the cartridge is flawed logic. If you subscribe to the Linn school of thought that "Garbage in, equals garbage out", the logical extension is that the most important piece is the cartridge. It has the most difficult job in many ways as the only piece that has to actually change physical energy (groove modulations) into electrical energy. The other parts of the system can only serve to mess up the info retrieved by the cartridge. So I would say put the cartridge first and then allocate less to the rest of the chain (at least until you get to the speakers which have the next most difficult job, transferring electrical energy to physical energy).