What is the Phono stage you have finished with?

Raul is correct- as soon as you break the phono stage out to a seperate box, you have an connectivity problem with whatever is downstream.

You see, one of the functions of a line stage is to control the interconnect cable. I don't see any phono stage that is really designed to do that, so the interconnect between the phono section and whatever follows (line stage, power amp) is critical. Then there is the matter of the volume control... a passive control and the attendant interconnections only offer more coloration rather than less, as well as a reduction of impact. As soon as you have these features built into a phono section (to get around these issues), you essentially have a full function preamp that is otherwise lacking the the switching and aux inputs.

I beg to differ in your comment "as soon as you break the phono stage out to a seperate box, you have an connectivity problem with whatever is downstream. You see, one of the functions of a line stage is to control the interconnect cable. I don't see any phono stage that is really designed to do that, so the interconnect between the phono section and whatever follows (line stage, power amp) is critical."

You can't use such a globally all-inclusive statement like that. It very much depends on the designer as to whether a phono stage has been appropriately designed to work with other components. I have zero problems with my Herron phono stage interacting with my Herron cables into my Herron line stage interacting with the downstream Herron cables into my Herron amps. I know for a first-hand fact that the phono stage was designed to interact with other quality components upstream and downstream.

I think ARC also tests their components extensively for good interaction as do some others.

Can't speak for some of the other less expensive phono stages. Maybe that's what your referring to.

I do agree with your statement regarding a passive volume control.

Yeah, I know I can find a few well regarded designers who'd pick that bone with Atmasphere and Raul. :-)

Its easy enough to find designers that will argue :)

Connectivity is another thing altogether so let's explore it.

Can you hear a difference between cables that go between your stand alone phone stage and the amplifier?

if no => connectivity is not a problem

if yes => connectivity *is* a problem.

Maybe that problem is solved by paying extra cash for more expensive cables. But think about it- next year that manufacturer (or some other one) will have the latest and greatest new cable. Is there anyone here that can tell me that's **not* the case??

The fact of the matter this goes on year after year. Well, what if you had a means to operate the cable such that the cheapest one you could find worked as well as any of the others? It is possible BTW.

That's what I mean by connectivity issues.

I believe that what Atmasphere was getting at was not that "the connectivity problem with whatever is downstream" cannot be surmounted, but the fact that doing so turns the phono stage into a "phono stage with a robust enough output stage to be the equivalent of a line stage with a phono stage built in and then with the other stuff that a line stage does taken out."

I don't think he thinks it is impossible at all. I am absolutely confident that Ralph could make a world class standalone phono stage which could drive an amp through a very long cable. That said, as he says, the output stage of that phono stage would resemble his preamp, and I am sure that he thinks that there are very few phono stages out there which have the same ability to drive an amp as the Atmasphere preamps do, and if they do, they might as well stick a switch and a couple of extra inputs and a volume control on it and call itself a full-function preamp.

I think he may have overstated things when he said "I don't see any phono stage that is really designed to do that" because I think there are several designers who do actually stick all that gain stage robustness in there. Saying something like that will almost always provide the opportunity for rebuttal because it's a big wide world out there. But it does not negate the rest of what he said.

What he did not say but may be inferred as his position is also relevant. Having to make two top-notch power supplies and two top-notch output stages just to stick the phono stage into a separate box from the preamp/line stage is an avoidable expense and coloration.

I bet even Dan_Ed thinks that Nick Doshi could probably come up with a "passable" 2-chassis or 4-chassis preamp with the phono stage built in... and it would probably be cheaper to do (and might have fewer chassis) than the combination of a standalone pre and phono.