Tables That Feature Bearing Friction

I heard in the last 15 years more average sounding units than I wanted to. Some are good looking, some are heavy, some are extremely expensive but at the end of day, well you know...average.

Couldn't have said it better myself. And I think that one of the reasons why the audio community tends to make deities and martyrs out of certain designers is because their dream of making i.e. the ultimate turntable is something we can all respect, love, and identify with. And yes, the story behind a product is a very powerful (and legitimate) incentive to buy . . . but whether or not the dreams have actually been realized in the product is of course another question entirely.

And there's also the question of what are exactly the objectives of a turntable "done right"? The story that Dertonarm tells of his ultimate turntable pursuit would be a frustrating one for me, because after that amount of work . . . I would personally want to see more than 15 people able to enjoy the pleasure of owning one. I think a truly successful product should put just as much innovation and excellence into the effecient use of materials and resources, and the financial model that allows it to be produced, purchased, and enjoyed to a significant degree.

But anyway, I'd like to steer the discussion more toward what we think are the biggest weaknesses in most current high-end turntables, in a general sense across the industry. Personally, I feel that the suspension/isolation systems are the huge weak spot, along with the proper control and dissipation of resonant energy between the platter and tonearm mount.

Dear Kirkus, indeed. Suspension of ANY turntable from vibration (if possible from air vibration = sound pressure too........ but that is another story...) is elementary. It is not a question of idea, philosophy or sound preference. It is vital to isolate the turntable from any seismic vibration. That implies that the suspension should go as low as 0.5 Hz to ensure isolation from building resonance. ANY vibration will falsify the groove modulation and alter its amplitude.

Again - we have the picture of the active or passive (if possible... air) isolated work bench for electron microscope. The working conditions for that electron-microscope are almost identical to the ideal working conditions of a turntable (at least of a turntable trying to go for anything near maximal possible performance). Both dealing in similar dimensions too.
Every owner of a decent turntable - already with built in spring suspension or not - can easily check this for himself. But a Vibraplane or a Minus-K or similar benchtop platform underneath any given turntable of at least some merit. You will notice the difference right away (no - I do not hold any shares from either company mentioned....). These platforms were designed for small elctron microscopes and vibration sensitive measurement equipment. No high-end nonsense, but straight industrial devices.
Well worth a try before you spend the next grand on a 3 feet NF-cable.....

There is one other vital aspect I want to point out: energy transfer between two masses. One mass in active movement - the other serving as the (static) floor. Picture a billiard table and the ball in motion. Ever wondered why the billiard ball does roll longer on certain tables? Because there is a direct relation between the mass (= thickness of stone platter underneath the green wool) and the energy transmission between the ball and the table. The ball stops earlier on the cheap (= rather thin marble stone platter) and lighter table. Energy transfer. More of the energy of the ball rotation is transfered into the mass of the table. If the differences between the 2 masses is increased, the ( unwnated !!) energy transmission gets less and less. The ball has a longer run - it can use more of the energy given by the qeue's poke for its motion.
There is a very similar relation between the stylus and the platter.

Dear Kirkus, there was no way to put that design into a commercial product. Too big (the Caliburn, Goldmund Reference, Micro 8000, Raven etc. were all dwarfs in size), too heavy, too much periphery, your wife would have shoot you and divorce (not sure which first...) upon the sight in teh living room.
And no way for trickling down in more convenient size and financial frame.
Anyway - I will do it once more this summer and autumn and will include a few technical devices which I could not integrate 20 years back. I will post the pictures and specs of the turntable in late autumn here on audiogon.
For all to share.

That implies that the suspension should go as low as 0.5 Hz to ensure isolation from building resonance.

I'm not so sure on this -- after all, at 0.5 Hz the relative stylus-to-record motion *should* be fairly well attenuated simply due to the fact that it's now several octaves below the basic cartridge/tonearm resonance, which is acting as a 12dB/oct high-pass filter.

From emperical evidence, the cartridge/tonearm resonance envelope definately affects the sensitivity of a boingy suspended turntable system to foot-falls and such. So I'm thinking that the primary suspension mechanism of importance is its Q, and flatness through its transition region . . . so it doesn't add any additional peaking to the tonearm/cartridge resonant peak . . . the exact rolloff point for the suspension simply needs to be a bit (an octave should easily do) below the that of the tonearm/cartridge. The best results will then be acheived because the slope of the attenuation (provided by both the suspension and tonearm/cartridge working together) is smoothly increased, without increasing the peaking, and the ultimate attenuation at very-low frequencies could be similar to the system you describe.

Another huge issue is how the suspension behaves with horizontal shock, in addition to its vertical behavior. I think that this is THE main flaw in the Linn/AR suspension, and just about every turntable suspension that uses compression springs. In these systems, since the mass of the subchassis sits above its support points, it's inherently unstable with regard to external horizontal motion. This fits with the long-time Linn recommendation of the Sound Org stand for floorstanding applications . . . something will minimise the addition of horizontal energy, yet cleanly transfers vertical energy to the turntable, where the suspension does its job the best.

Ideally, it seems that the subchassis should be underhung with respect to the fixed chassis, resulting in a stable, predictable horizontal resonance . . . and there's probably some perfect relationship between the horizontal and vertical resonant frequencies that would allow horizontal shock to be converted to vertical spring deflection (through pendulum action).

Well, we do not have to re-invent the wheel here. All this research about suspension has already been done by industry with huge amount of manpower and technical resources. These problems are solved.
We just have to apply them to the turntable system and/or its benchtop / stand platform.
The only problem is: they do not come cheap (as any "good" turntable cannot come cheap....) .......
Have a look at the website of Minus-K and/or Kinetic systems or any of its market competitors.
What will do the work for an electron microscope will do the work for a turntable.
The better of these benchtop platforms will isolate from vertical AND horizontal vibration.
Foot-falls and usual household vibrations from washing machines and in-house motors are not the problem.
The problem is the all-present buliding resonance.
It was an eye-opener for me to actually "see" what isolation from enviromental vibration really means - and what it can do.
If we can agree, that the idealized working conditions are very similar for both turntables and electron microscopes (both "working" in very similar nanocosmos dimensions) - then we already have the solution.
In easy words: you do not have to worry about suspension at all if you put the turntable in question on top of a professional vibration isolation benchtop platform precisely resonance-adjusted to the weight of the turntable in question (and for god's sake - do NOT place any standalone/detached motor-drive on the same platform!).
Borrow one or try to get one from technical scavangers (there are enough companies around selling of the remains from technical-orientated companies getting out-of-business). I bought a good benchtop from Kinetic used via ebay for 1/20th of the list price (o.k. the transport from North Hollywood to central europe was a few bucks too, but not that bad).

Well - a really "good" new isolation platform will cost the same as any of the "avarage" turntables alone.

If the technical aspect and waypath alone are not enough proof, I recommend to all (for once..... to support the technical outline) following Raul's advise: listen to it.
The immediate apparent difference in sound-presentation will tell the story.

As I still am sure that we do work with techincal facts and issues only in the design of a turntable - the turntable "done right" will never come cheap.
If you are into off-shore boats or high-end rifles or high-end motors - no matter where - if you are looking for the "best" in those they won't come cheap either.
You just can't fool around with physics.
In the design of those topics just mentioned - are we dealing with taste or guesswork ? Maybe in the outlook, the cosmetics - but never in the technical design.
In turntable technical design (NOT cosmetics or appearance) its all physics - and honestly, there are moments when I do not like that fact either ........