Tables That Feature Bearing Friction

Thanks for the info, Dertonarm . . . I enjoyed reading about these products.

But it's not a matter of "re-inventing the wheel", its a matter of understanding the exact requirements so as to make sure we understand how well the solution fits the application, and the problems we're trying to solve. Because (to use a silly example), putting your tomato plants in the finest laboratory glassware doesn't mean their fruit will taste any better.

Most of these off-the-shelf devices (i.e. the MK26) appear to have a low-pass characteristic that somewhat resembles a Chebyshev response, which trades some pass-band ripple or peaking for increased performance in the stop-band . . . I'd speculate that this is an excellent trade-off for most of the laboratory applications for which they're sold. But for a turntable, the low-frequency peaking of these products may indeed cause some problems. I'm sure they still sound excellent . . .

. . . but if you truly want to do a turntable "right" as you say, then simply sticking i.e. an RX5000 on an off-the-shelf Minus-K platform doesn't cut in my book. Using existing laboratory-instrument technology might be a good approach . . . but if you want the BEST performance like you say . . . a custom-designed product that had its stopband/passband performance tailored specifically to a turntable application is what you should be after.

Dear Kirkus, - well a Micro RX-5000 on a (specified for the Micro 5000's weight load) Minus-K is already a different beast.
The one vital point is, to really use a platform only, which is specified for the exact weight of the turntable in question.
One problem is however, that all the benchtop isolators do only perform their best with fairly heavy load (at least heavy for a turntable...).
As the better ones are designed to work with fairly big (= heavy = expensive...) microscopes and similar costly technical measurement equipment (= the users have little limit on spending extra to get their instruments show their best....... as always - they are all "in it for the money"...).
However your proposal to carefully tailor laboratory-instrument technology hits the point. It is exactly what I am doing in my spare time the past 2 months.

Dear Kirkus: I agree with you on the subject.

A TT design are develop on many " factors/characteristics " that have an intimate relationship that makes almost impossible to build the " perfect " TT and like in almost any audio item design we have to choose the best trade-offs and these trade-offs are the ones that make " the difference " but almost every TT designers have its own trade-offs priorities and to be more complex that TT designs comes to a different customers that have its own sound reproduction priorities.

Yes, we can make a TT design near " perfection " according our own technical trade-offs and the ones are not so technical but that have some kind of influence.

About, isolation: how can we aisle the TT from the SPL of speakers in the room?, maybe looking for the lower SPL in that room or taking the TT in a different room where means a different kind of trade-offs. In a TT " perfect " design we have to think about and in many ther obvious factors and other no so obvious ones.

Here we are talking on macro-isolation but there are micro-isolation that are way important too, we have to remember that the cartridge is a very strong " micro ". You point-out the importance of the arm board and I can add ( example ) the importance of a TT mat and we can go on and on. Interesting.

Now, we can put the best technical know-how on the TT design but we have to test on laboratory ( truly expensive ) and in a second step ( critical ) we have to test it in our own laboratory: ears/brain, not an easy task, each one of us has a different " approach/attitude " in the same subject!

Thank's to those human been " differences " exists different/many TT designs out there, good thing.

The subject is how the TT designer can improve ( near perfection ) its own design, it want to do it? are enough TT customers that could pay the price for that " near perfection " TT to make commercial business? can the market/customers understand the advantages on that " near perfection " TT?, I think that exist too many questions and too many different answers to each one question.

As we can try to go " in deep " on the subject as more questions come " alive " and this is almost with any audio item design.
I know ( like Detornarm ) what I'm talking about because in our Phonolinepreamp we already be " face to face " with all those " problems/trade-offs " ( and many others ) and we stay right now in our tonearm design: complex for say the least

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

and that's is " simple " task because there is only one person on the design but what if there are two-three-four persons on the design and everyone with the same " right " to make an opinion valid.
I know the big " trouble " here because some times in the design one or more opinions goes against each other and we have to be very very open mind to make the " final " decision on the subject below discusion. Not easy at all.

We " face " many other issues: exist the technology to build what we " think " on the design ? are there the build materials/parts in a precise way we need it? can we manufacturer if not?, questions/answers like these have its own trade-offs.

The design/build of any audio item is a real and hard challenge for everyone but big corporations like Matushita Harman and the like.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Dear Raul, yes - a different room is the one and only way to isolate any turntable effective from SPL radiated by the speakers. No doubt. However - this has nothing to do with the turntable design itself. It is a matter of the enviroment/position. Put the turntable in the next room and drill a hole through the wall to allow exit of the tonearm cable or the NF-cable(s) from preamplifier to poweramplifier(s) - è voila!
But - a turntable can be designed to "near perfection".
"Everything possible to be believed is an image of truth " (William Blake , end of 18th century).
Its a matter of consequence, effort and energy put into the task.
However - a "near perfect" turntable can NEVER be a commercial design.
A space shuttle will never be a commercial product either (not as comparism here, but to clarify the point...).
Neither can the "near perfect speaker" and its cousins the "near perfect preamplifier, poweramplifier (always in close relation to the crossover and efficiency of the speaker) etc "(well, the pivot tonearm and the cartridge - that could work in the narrow frame of market-conformity). Any other commercial audio product will be - and was so far - always a (often more and rarely less) dreadful bundle of compromises (god - I hate that word since childhood!!).

To come anywhere close to the "near perfect" in audio components means in plain simply words:
- leave commerical audio products and the idea to bring that "near perfect" designed audio component to a "market" behind.
It will not work.
You have to do compromises to bring ANY product on a "market".
There is no free lunch in high-end audio neither.
Well - theres an old saying: nature knows no compromise.
Compromise may be indispensable to keep our past zenith society working as long as possible.
If we accept all too easy compromise in the development of audio components we will always get what we deserve and have gotten so far:

.....mediocrity......