Tables That Feature Bearing Friction

Dear Lewm, well my comment about an idler drive in turntable design today should be clear.
Not really curing one problem ( draw a force vector diagram and give it a deep thought - the bearing of an idler drive (motor force applied to the underside of platter at one point or to the rim of platter at one point) - as it is done so far - is NOT free of horizontal force.... ) and by doing so creating a few others (not just noise...) seems not a good idea.
This is a drive concept of a time long gone by and for a purpose which has nothing to do with quality, but which only applied to broadcast services and disc-jockeys and which is pretty inexpensive to realize. Broadcast stations worldwide discontinued the use of idler drive TTs over 30 years ago. This should tell the story. Furthermore I already said before, that I will never give any comment about any commercial product currently on the market.

As for Vinyl heaven............. I can see paradise, but there is no light....

Dear Mrjstark, indeed - many music critics who never played an instrument and many TT designers who never understood what they are doing.
If we already have so many weak links why adding another.......

But this will lead us nowhere.
I have my points of view - others have their.

Anyone out there who would like to discuss any other technical topic of the complex turntable ?

Dertonarm, You are entitled to your opinion, but please acknowledge that you DO have an opinion - that the ultimate turntable must have a humongous platter driven by a string or thread. That is an agenda in itself. You have closed your mind to other ideas, no matter how well executed. We are just beginning to see how good idler-and direct-drive tables can become, in my opinion and assuming the vinyl renaissance continues for a whle. After all, belt-driven tts have been researched almost exclusively since at least the early 80s, whereas these other technologies were all but abandoned at that time. Anyway, thanks for all your insights; I do not mean to be argumentative. By the way, I would guess that a "cheap" idler- or especially a direct-drive tt costs more to make than a "cheap" belt-drive tt, which is a part of the reason those drives were abandoned.

Dear Dertonarm: I agree in almost all the " main " subjects about TT's BD design.

Yes, it is a very very simple item ( not a rocket to Andromeda. ) to design, almost everything is physics laws aplication with common sense.

Yes ( like any other link in the audio chain ) it must be dead neutral/accurate ( not confuse with analytical, cool, etc, etc )no doubt about. Its job is simple: to run with accuracy/stability at 33/45/78 rpm adding nothing and degrading nothing, a " perfect target " where there are no compromises.
Sounds easy and beautiful!!!

But ( I hate the " but's , but exist. ) how the " science " can predict for example: which material build ( or a blend of materials ) is the right one for the plynth? for the platter? , for the arm board? for the bearing?; which is the " behavior " ( how are its resonances, time of energy dissipation, distortions/colorations. Its behavior is exactly the same at 33rpm than at 78? and a lot of questions that we have to give a precise answer in scientific way and in subjective one too. ) of those build materials when we run the TT along any tonearm with any cartridge? : what kind of distortion/coloration the cartridge is taking from the TT it self? from where comes those " distortions "? exist the " perfect " material? where? why? and I can go on and on.

In a perfect/ideal design we have to have precise answers to many questions and the way to " solve " the " stones " in the road.

Years after you made your TT still have " questions " that you will try to " answer " this year.
Why the physics laws can't help you given to you the right answers when you made the design? maybe because you are not " perfect "? maybe because there are other " roads " to go? maybe? maybe?......?

Like I say in my first post about: IMHO your approach it is not the " only and the best " it is the approach of how you " see " and how you " answer " to the TT design.

I already " see " which one is/was your " answer " to other audio items in your system ( No this not to start a different debate. So, please stay calm about. ) and IMHO not a " perfect " ones. Maybe for you are perfect ( and this is the important subject because you are the one that must live and enjoy any single day. ) but the WORLD is a little more wide than each one of us.

I like this thread where any one of us ( one way or the other for the good or bad. ) are learning many important things that could make that each one of us make a " revision " of our audio/music targets/priorities and what in reality we are hearing in our each one home system: " perfection " or real mediocity or...or...?

Many of us are satisfied with our home system that is full of distortions/colorations ( it does not matters prices or item names ) and IMHO we must grow-up: if the designers, reviewers and audio dealers don't want it or can't it at least we must ask/cry out for it.

Now Dertonarm, sooner or latter we have to put our foots in earth, we have to thing that we don't leave in an aisle way but surrounded by a very wide/different environments and in many cases we can't take out its " influence " ( any kind. )

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Sorry: think and live at the last sentences instead of " thing " and " leave " .

Raul.