2. amps-preamps
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Best Used tube Preamp 1700-- 2500: advice needed

I'm seriously shopping for a new (used) preamp that will outperform my VTL 2.5TL. Even tho I think the 2.5TL is a really excellent preamp for the $$$, reading about (presumably) better preamps has given me the urge to upgrade. Also, I'm thinking that in my system, it's the next logical component upgrade (?). (Rest of my system is ARC VT100 MkII, B&W Matrix 802 S3's, CAL 25 CD player, & Rega P25 with a Benz Glider).

My priorities: I'm seeking better sound-staging & imaging, & generally "better everything", sound wise. Remote control is important to me. I also listen to about 30% vinyl, so a built in phono pre would be nice (as I have with my current preamp), but I've resigned myself to probably shelling out for a separate phono pre. I'm a tube convert, so I'm mainly thinking of tube units. Looks & ergonomics could possibly sway me if the sonic qualities are there.

And I guess looking not just for a great preamp, but kind of one of those "hidden jewels" that perhaps perform like much more expensive units. Right now, I'm considering, in order of interest: the Joule Electra LA100, & the VTL 5.5TL. Also, the ARC LS25 MkII or REF One?--(sorting out all the various ARC models & upgrades can give one a headache, but it's a logical choice given my current ARC power amp), or a C-J Premier 17LS. Various BATS (VK-5i--or??) have interested me, but I always seem to read comments like, "this BAT is really good, but the soundstage (or whatever) isn't as good as an ARC, or other preamp, etc. etc." Then there's the CAT......which I'm kind of reluctantly ruling out because of no remote, but the optional built in phono pre would be really nice, & I do understand it's reputation. Naturally I'd consider others......Cary's, Bel Canto's, etc.

I'm thinking that these are all pretty excellent choices......& when I buy used components sight unheard it usually seems to come down to opportunity/price/my gut feeling/phase of the moon/lots of reading, advice. etc. Or, I could pick one, & hold out for that.......

Any advice on any of this would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Steve
steveaudio
tok20000's avatar
tok20000
608 posts
 
Try Sonic Frontiers SF2 or SF2SE or SF3 or SF3SE. All but maybe the SF3SE can be found used in that price range. I have the SF3SE and it is amazing. See mys system listed in the virtual systems here at Audiogn. Peace. Keith
rayhall
393 posts
 
It seems to me that you are doing this investigation of preamps almost "on paper" rather than going out and listening. I say that your effort should be concentrated in hearing as many of these pre-amps as you can, particularly in your system if possible. Without going out and listening, you are engaged in an almost theoretical exercise where the rules of evaluation have nothing to do with the most important factor by far: how these products sound to your ear. Forget the factors like ergonomics, whether they have remote control or not. You might find that some of these units impress you sonically so much over others that you are willing to abandon one or more of those factors of lesser importance. If not, you can always raise these for consideration after weighing the sonic issues. If you want to rely on others' advice, I think it is better first to establish your own opinion of as many of these products as you can listen to, and then to solicit others' advice or read and see if your estimation coincides with what others think and write. In your listening sessions, I have found it very helpful to take notes as I listen. It helps a lot when it is necessary to recall that listening experience a month or two later. Also, for every listening session write down all the supporting equipment cables etc. Try to use supporting equipment which is similar to your own and where there are differences from what you use, try to assess the synergy of the preamp you are auditioning with the various components and make educated guesses about whether the preamp will have good synergy in your system. Among the products which you mentioned, I would say they seem to be all over the map as far as sonic character is concerned, so it doesn't seem like you have yet determined what sounds good to you or fits well in your system. You need to listen to a lot of different products to find that out. Good luck.
yu11375
137 posts
 
I will suggest Counterpoint SA-11. It uses 13 tubes (6080, 5R4GYB, 6GC5, 6JC6A and 5651) in power supply section and 4 tubes (6SN7) in audio section.

It brings me VERY VERY VERY close to live performances I attended in Carnegie Hall / Metropolitan Opera House. That's only way I can describe this machine.

Happy Listening!

Otto
questforsound
126 posts
 
how about checking out the Granite Audio #770f.. wonderful tube preamp with a tube phono stage ...new for about $3000.00---- for specs .. check out our catalog on audiogon .. we are a showcase dealer or http://www.graniteaudio.com/amp/index.html

stephen
franks
151 posts
 
I'm at a little bit of a disadvantage as I have never heard the VTL 2.5, but here goes.

Obviously, an ARC front end would work well with your amp. The LS25 with a PH3 phono stage(around $1000 used and can be upgraded to the SE at your leisure) would be a nice combo but I doubt you could get the LS25 for $2500. Figure $3500-4000 for the pair plus another set of interconnects and your getting to the point where a used CAT ultimate(I know, no remote control) or Hovland 100 is possible,both of which would be a large stepup from where your at.

On the value front, you might want to consider an Audible Illusions M3A. In its latest version it offers amazing sound for the money and can be had used for about $1300-1700. It includes a MM phono(you didn't mention the output of your glider)But a moving coil option is availble for $500 and can be added at a latter date. I beleive remote control is available as an option but you should check with AI.

A "hidden jewel" that you may not have heard of would be my current preamp, an Atma-Sphere MP3. You've probably heard of their OTL amps, but they also make 2 preamps, the least expensive of which is the MP3 which lists for $3800 but if your lucky you might be able to find one used for around $2500. Sorry, no remote control but the sound is stunning. It replaced an excellent Audible Illusions M3 and the degree of improvement in speed, transparency and imaging kind of shocked me. It has a built in phono stage that can drive moving coils. It has only balanced inputs and outputs which means you can take advantage of the balanced inputs on your amp, but also means your going to have to change your phono cable to a balanced configuration(all phono cartridges have balanced output so maintaining a balanced connection into the preamp is the optimal way to go. Check out the Atma-Sphere website for more info and reviews. Have fun.
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