VTA setting for 'parabolic' and 'elliptical' styli


Hi,
please let's have some expert opinions based on experience regarding this subject.
One cart manual specifically recommends negative VTA (arm down from level at pivot) for parabolic styli, as compared to some elliptical styli prefering positive VTA (arm up from level at pivot), see Townshend IEE 500 manual:
http://downloads.nakedresource.com/ve_download_centre/index.php?townshend/elitetownshend_cartridges.pdf
as seen on Vinylengine: http://www.vinylengine.com/library/townshend/eei-500.shtml

To further confuse the issue, in a manual for the Garrott P77, also using a parabolic stylus (Micro Tracer), it states the complete opposite, moving the arm UP by 4-5mm for best VTA...! That's one hell of a lot positive VTA, close to imposible to even realise with mu SME-V. (The arm begins to bottom out on the lowered arm-lift)

Could anyone shed some light on these contradictions for us?

The 'EEI 500' does work best with negative VTA, and so does my A&R P77, also sporting a parabolic stylus.
In terms of ALL line-stylus type carts (all my MCs) it was ALWAY understood that UP from level gives more treble and DOWN less treble etc. etc. (..in VERY simple terms, as we know the whole spiel).

It needs to be mentioned, that the MM carts noted above **appeared** to need more arm UP to sound correct, according to my then current experience --- indeed they seem to work the other way around! Hm...
Greetings,
Axel
axelwahl
Hi Timeltel
you say:
>>> ... it seems to me that the narrower the profile of the stylus in contact with the groove walls, (some) divergence becomes less critical and the less apparent (slight) VTA error becomes <<<

If I read you correctly it would contradict my understanding diametrically, as you then say that: a conical, next a hemi-spherical, followed by elliptical, then parabolic and micro-ride would become less and less critical in terms of VTA error...?
Are we sure that's your position?

Well, wow, ok, hm... Right, let's see were we are in agreement... I'm thinking...

That would not even be with the 'smearing' part...
Huston we have a problem!

All those styli going back down the line (also in time) from a VERY narrow fine-line contact stylus to a conical stylus would be more and more unable to produce micro detail i.e. 'swallow' it if you wish, since they can NOT completely trace the last bit of groove detail.

So maybe we find some common ground with this. Since it is blatantly obvious when listening to a conical stylus and then a fine-line type stylus, there is less information detail.

So what does that mean? Less and lesser detail = less **perceivable** time smear = less noticeable VTA error, would you follow me on this one at all?

Some expert put it this way: If you change VTA (and most noticeable with micro/fine-line contact styli) you are changing the treble to mid/bass information retrieval IN TIME i.e. lift the arm (more positive SRA/VTA) and you start to 'advance' the higher frequencies or retard them by going down (all relative from the 'best' / most correct retrieval position or SRA).

If you are still with we, then this means that the higher the resolution, the more **noticeable** a VTA/SRA deviation from 'spot on'. And in turn, the less resolution, simply the more 'forgiving'.

So far may understanding --- but as always the facts never tell the hole truth, since there are so many of them :-)

>>> ..I share [Raul's] philosophy of setup to an acceptable standard and then "enjoy the music" <<<

I'm trying to work this out for myself, and still searching as it were. While sheer cost helps somewhat, to find it :-)

Greetings,
Axel
Hi all, it seems to me that most audiophiles should make up their mind first, about how deep they want to go into the topic......
It makes not too much sense to me if we first discuss set-up aspects but once they go into core issues and demand some individual work, many move out again claiming "set-up to an acceptable standard and then "enjoy the music"..." - isn't this a bit odd?
Is this still in compliance with the big buck spend, the time and effort of putting a system together and time spend in forums like this ?
Am I missing something ?
To me this is plain inconsistency.

Or am I just too obsessed with details and my quest of ?

Cheers,
D.
Well, Herr Tonarm :-)

so what's the solution?

Get a VTA-tower of some sort, or spend ~ 5min plus extra with every LP played to re-set VTA?
And then wear the hole mechanism with all this up/down, it was NOT actually designed for in the first place?

I share your goal for best possible play-back --- the enquiry is about where this 'best possible' starts & ends for the individual enthusiast, including money AND time spend.

Not every one driving a car requires a Bentley or a Bugatti, I think.

Pondering,
Axel
Not every one driving a car requires a Bentley or a Bugatti, I think.
sure, for some is walking the better way :)