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VTA setting for 'parabolic' and 'elliptical' styli

Hi,
please let's have some expert opinions based on experience regarding this subject.
One cart manual specifically recommends negative VTA (arm down from level at pivot) for parabolic styli, as compared to some elliptical styli prefering positive VTA (arm up from level at pivot), see Townshend IEE 500 manual:
http://downloads.nakedresource.com/ve_download_centre/index.php?townshend/elitetownshend_cartridges.pdf
as seen on Vinylengine: http://www.vinylengine.com/library/townshend/eei-500.shtml

To further confuse the issue, in a manual for the Garrott P77, also using a parabolic stylus (Micro Tracer), it states the complete opposite, moving the arm UP by 4-5mm for best VTA...! That's one hell of a lot positive VTA, close to imposible to even realise with mu SME-V. (The arm begins to bottom out on the lowered arm-lift)

Could anyone shed some light on these contradictions for us?

The 'EEI 500' does work best with negative VTA, and so does my A&R P77, also sporting a parabolic stylus.
In terms of ALL line-stylus type carts (all my MCs) it was ALWAY understood that UP from level gives more treble and DOWN less treble etc. etc. (..in VERY simple terms, as we know the whole spiel).

It needs to be mentioned, that the MM carts noted above **appeared** to need more arm UP to sound correct, according to my then current experience --- indeed they seem to work the other way around! Hm...
Greetings,
Axel
axelwahl
dertonarm
1,042 posts
 
Well Axel,

its max. 1 minute we are talking - not 5 min plus - that is required to getting the VTA adapted to the specific LP laying on the platter.
That 1 minute is vital.
Seems as if each of us spends much more time online in forums lately than the total ad-d up time for VTA adjustment for many hundreds of LPs played.......

You see - there is simply no point in NOT doing this - for any reason.
If you not doing it, you are putting the performance level of your whole front-end to chance and risk.
And teh odds will be against you - by a huge margin.

Cheers,
D.
axelwahl OP
788 posts
 
Hi,
so no compromise solutions on VTA, is where it's at.
I had it coming I guess, hm.
"Ask questions, get answers" :-)

I've already increased my stock of VTA shims by over 100% in between listening and blogging. And now I guess I better shut up.

Greetings,
Axel
PS: I've just not yet come around to mess with my beautifully restored record covers, relying on my memory +/-, eish.
timeltel's avatar
timeltel
830 posts
 
Regards, Axelwahl: Always glad to know if I have the Shure on the wrong foot, your opinion is respected. I should have clarified: 90% of my listening is casual, frequently from another room or while reading. Music is constantly present but is not always an event. There may be others who do the same. I hold the highest regard for those who adjust VTA to within "1/200th turn" for every selection. When listening to music critically, VTA becomes much more my concern, correct adjustment takes only a moment and is well worth the small effort, but is not a thing I obsess about, nor would I suggest it of anyone. Knowing the difference is the key, how it is applied seems relative to the environment. My 350Z can achieve 159 mph, but I don't choose to always drive it that way.
Dertonarm, if you think I put the cart. before the course, so be it, but let's return to Axel's post, he asks an interesting question. I'm sure you can respond professionally to the technical aspects concerning stylus profiles and their relation to VTA, whereas the only reference in my "audiophile resume" is 40 yrs. of undocumented interest. Accordingly I will continue to adjust VTA when I think it necessary.
axelwahl OP
788 posts
 
Hi Timeltel and All,

it is actually very nice to have all these different takes, what makes life interesting - variation :-)

Thank you also for pulling the thread back onto the subject.
Since I got more curious about the V15's VTA preference. So, parabolic vs. elliptical and all, I put in a AT-140LC.

I had listened to it before (the negative VTA finding) and it sounded 'papery' and a bit 'plasticy'. I'd mentioned it to Raul in the context of a stylus insert replacement, a ATN440MLa in that case.

Recall, LC stands for Line-Contact and I should guess one more synonym for 'parabolic'?

Back in that AT-140LC went -- and this time with negative VTA, actually the same ~ -1.5mm as the V15. Now it plays VERY nice in deed. (Are we giving away some secret formula?)

I can tell, that e.g. the Empire S1000 ZE/X has an elliptical stylus, and sure enough it needs to go up, about +1mm from level arm, maybe even some more.

These are obviously very few samples, of only a few carts, but so far they seem to stick to what Pete Townshend had to say about his then EEI (Elite Electronic Industries, Victoria AU) carts.

Maybe we can find some more confirmation, and this is not just some more odd-ball thing.

Axel
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