Dedicated phono-pre for MM only?

Tom,
re.: Reflex & Elevator...
>>> But apparently it's not what Axel considered "top end" when he asked the original question.<<<

Actually I'm not really in a position to be the 'judge' on what a "top-end" MM-stage comprises (other than $$$/hear-say/etc...)

But what I did say earlier on is:

- "What I come up with is, for best sound for the $$$:

1) affordable phono-stage with MM (Reflex?)
2) good stage with MM
3) good stage with SUT and MC (Note: not mentioned headamps i.e. Elevator)
4) top stage with MC

2) and 3) maybe on par, and MC = LO MC > 0.4mV " -

This would be in favour, $$$wise, of using MM with MM-only stage.
I think we'll struggle to get an answer to whether a "top-end" MM stage even exists (other than 3160), AND if it makes actually as big a difference in sound, compared to the more affordable ones (e.g. Reflex)

Note: There is absolutely NO DOUBT in my mind, that due to the low output voltage of MCs, only the-best-of-the-best MC-stage will actually be good enough to do justice to an MC's potential.

Maybe, because good MM's, due to the higher output, make for simpler, less costly, yet top performance stage designs?

Like: Single ended, JFET & tube (2 gain stages only), ~ 1dB RIAA error, good clean power supply ---- finito?

If that was so, there'd be plenty to pick from, and it would 'sink' plenty of MC set-ups with only so-so MC-stage. Everyone can get back to vinyl, without another mortgage on the house :-)

Rockinrobin, I am going to guess that your experience is an overall endorsement of the Reflex. If it were not doing a good job, you might not hear a big difference between the two cartridges. Now you should try the Reflex alone driven by a Grace Ruby, Garrott P77, AKG, AT, B&O, or etc. Let us know how such a combo compares to the Elevator/Kontrapunkt source. Maybe some one of us can lend you one of those gems. (Just kidding...., but it would help the cause.)

Tom, what Jadis preamp did you have in mind? The last top end product from them that I am aware of was the JP80. By now there must be newer models. They have been really quiet in the US market, as in "absent".

Hi, Axel, it makes sense that newcomers to vinyl would benefit from using MM cartridges initially. And having a high quality, affordable (but dedicated) MM phono stage would be something they could continue to use as they upgraded the turntable and other components. The Graham Slee Reflex and Elevator appears to be one option that fits the upgrade path. I don't have the experience to offer an opinion as to whether it's high end or not.

But I think that for many people starting out, committing to MM cartridges due to a specialized phono preamp is not a comfortable decision. I know when I purchased my first "real" phono preamp, I chose one that had a wide range of gain and loading options because I wanted to be able to experiment with different cartridges without having to purchase additional components; i.e., a SUT or headamp.

But it seems (based on the discussions of this thread) that a dedicated MM phono preamp may not be the best design for adding LOMC capabilities, thus requiring a completely different LOMC preamp to get optimal sound. There's no simple (or affordable?) solution. '-)

Hi, Lewm, I didn't offer the Jadis as a reference, Axel mentioned it in his initial post. I checked some prices and one their premium designs (JP80MC) was approaching $20,000 USD. That's when I retracted my suggestion of the Reflex as an example of a high quality dedicated MM stage. Not really fair to compare a $1300 USD phono preamp with one costing more than ten times that. Or maybe it is... '-)

Tom