Graham Phantom vs. Phantom II

Btw,Stilty(and I'm "not" rying to be contrary)....

I "did" set up all of those arms,on multiple times,in multiple systems.All pretty much sota set ups...so...

Yes,there is an increase in performance(between the arms)as one moves up the table of model designations,and time periods of design...but...

these improvements are "not nearly as large"(though obviously audible) as we like to make them seem.That is simply my own observation about things audio.

You can change out a tube or almost anyother component or chachka,and get a similar result.

It is fairly common with many components,not specific to these great(and they are that good) arms.I LOVE the Graham stuff,btw.

Anyway,I think there is a certain "something" about just listening to,and enjoying music that counters the "need" to have to get that "last degree" of "whatever".One reason why highe end audio is on a downward spiral,sadly.Not enough new blood,who are willing to spend the cashola.

I TOTALLY understand your "correct" asessment of these arms' differences,but I'd say in the long run it does not really matter,once a certain level of sonic bliss is had.

In the boutique acoustic guitar world,each and every instrument is very different from oneanother,and each is voiced differently.

Different wood combinations,different scale lengths etc,so there is NO "one" standard of accuracy.

Yet,each player understands this,and lauds the differences.Even respects a different sonic vibe,from whatever he,himself, is playing.

So,I say we are knocking ourselves out,trying to shoot for the last vestige of accuracy.It does not exist!

Each component in the chain(so long as they "do" meet a good standard)will change the total vibe of the syatem,and it's up to the owner to voice it.Then stay off websites like this(habit forming)and have a nice glass of wine,while enjoying your record collection -:)

Hmm,looks like I have not changed mush either!Another one of my long winded rants.... -:)

Good luck

R F Sayles,
I guess the issue here goes back to synergy and especially between turntables & tonearms.

I like my Phantom tonearm, however I am not sure if I would like it as much on a leaner sounding table compared to what I have now. Personally I am not 100% sure if I would like the Phantom II on my table with the majority of music I prefer to listen to.

Mass/Avid are just taking that synergy point and recommending their tables go with a more robust sounding tonearm like the SME V.

That is one reason why intergrated table/tonearm by the same manufacturer makes a lot of sense - except in the true equipment audiophile that is in a lot of us.

As always one man's lean/bright is another's neutral/transparent and one man's warmth and tone is another's turgid bloat and lack of transparency.
I can find this going from record to record - which is why a 2nd table or tonearm combo is a good idea to better match the recording sometimes. Cartridges have the same choices.

All the gear we have is comfortable ahead of the majority.

I appreciate you sharing comments and experience in this matter. The Graham Phantom II is a work of art both mechanically and sonically, to that I feel we all would agree. I would also acknowledge that synergy is paramount, regardless of anything else. And in the end... when all the talk settles, I may have no other choice than to try, as was suggested, for my self and see. Going with the Kondo silver wire in my SME V as opposed to the stock VDH braid was intended to move away from some of the alleged darkness of this arm. I am surprised that to my ear, this wire and the character of my Aesthetix front end and phono has not added disproportionately to the leanness of which you speak. Using my listening experiences from our local audio club juxtaposed with live acoustic concert experiences, the system appears to be markedly balanced IMHO. Though I do fully concede to a penchant for long lean women, wonder if there's any connection!?

Happy Listening!

Hi,
following this thread with its Brucknerian fortissimos – and ~pianissimos, I find it interesting to read about the "darkness" of the SME V arm --- once again.

It seems to underscore the point made by Downunder about 'arm / table synergies.

Using a SME V on my SME 10 'table, leaves not the smallest of notions about darkness! --- so that 'table may just be a 'lean' lady? (It looks the part, yes)

In turn it would suggest that a Phantom be too 'light and breathy' on an SME 10 (similarly open in plinth design to the AVID)?
However, Graham has a nice and ready fit for those SME arm board connections. Perhaps an indication that there is a demand for the more beefy SME 20 and 30 models?

Greetings,
Axel

Axel, Your point is well taken, the lady may be teaching me something by contrast, if I understand you correctly. Synergy is a demanding mistress my friend! And this is why we need an open forum like AudioGon. There is no way I (we) could get this kind of sharing of ideas and viewpoints in our limited circles. I have the good fortune of being part of a one hundred, fifty plus membership in a local audiophile group called SMAC Southeastern Michigan Audio Club and many of our members are part of the Audio Karma Festival each year in our area and yet, the input by this thread has given me new insight about my SME V and the Phantom II from all of your observations.

Happy Listening!