Da Vinci AAS Gabriel

Well,
1. Klasse or not. If I read the response it'd tell me that "Platine Verdier" can not work as a top tt should work, because it is at constant "war" with the -constant- bearing friction... hm,?!?

Hey, I guess I'm not ready for this engineering-101 type of analysis yet. Something tells me this is more opinion then knowledge based analysis :-)

One fact to be considered: motors (most? all?) in order to perform correctly/steadily - AC to make sure, since DC is all over the place due to other issues, need to operate AGAINST some sort of load, the more constant the better.

This would completely contradict this almost 'free-wheeling' notion that I seem to hear by Syntax.
Thomas, were did you obtain your engineering degree? In the 2. Klasse then?
Greetings,
Axel

Well, it can be a endless discussion when you don't know what you hear. Most today "like" something or they read an "article/review" in a magazine, save 3-4 sentences from it and after a while they are transformed into "experience/knowledge".
Sometimes I wonder (no, wrong, I stopped that) how many Audiophiles think, what a Designer does is perfect. Ultimate. Lots are able to make enough money to buy expensive things (but only with a good discount of course/review "winner"), but on the other side they have absolutely no idea what these units are doing. And they are not seriously interested in that.
And even in the next life these discussions will go on...
One way to avoid it, is to try to visit audiophiles and listen to their Systems, sooner or later you will hear differences...the only decision you have to make then is:
- Do I "like" it or not...
- Is it right or wrong....
"In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king"
You know, these 3 sentences...

I know that this will lead to nothing but more questions, but nevertheless:
- operating the Verdier TT with a thread/string and minimal grip will minimize the requirements to the motor and maximize the benefit of the platters inertia to give excellent constant speed.
The one "key" to great results (very constant speed with literally no alternations) in high mass platters is "belt" (read: thread/string) drive with minimal grip/tension. The inertia does the job - and it does it better or the equal of the very best direct coupling/controller.
But it does so with the minimum vibration and literally no alternation in speed (due to motor/controller regulations, belt grip in conjunction with speed up and slow down due to belt inert velocity etc.).
There are 2 way to get good constant speed:
- low mass platter with low inertia driven by high quality and high torque motor/w controller (many examples - direct drive and idler drive and hybrid concepts by Denon, Sony, Luxman, EMT etc in the 1970ies/1980ies and later).
- high mass platter with high inertia and very low grip thread drive.

If you want to go with a low platter weight - fine.
But that will get you nowhere close to what is possible, due to the inner resonance of the low mass platter introduced by the tracking process itself.
You can try to dampen that with mats etc. - thats why so many TT's do benefit from tuning mats to a high degree.
Still - you won't get really dynamic low register, no "air" in the bass line, no real speed and a rather muddy and "warm" upper bass.
But many do like that.

D.T.
y.s.:
>> If you want to go with a low platter weight - fine. <<

Not necessarily, in fact I have this suspicion from what I heard this far, there is once again some trade-of going on here.
I have heard the 'musical' mass-platters close to what you mention (alas not with loosish string), - and very 'fast' lower-mass-platters ~ 4.5kg, that can sound a bit 'restless' even nervous like.
So Thomas, where he sees it, seems a bit unclear to me, but since he likes to 'stir the pot' he may like AND dislike both, in the fashion of a true chilled out cynic?

In the case of a ~ mass-platter (of sorts), Transrotor Z3 with a jolly tense neoprene belt, it goes as much the route pretty of a Thorens 2010 arrangement.

Then we have the 'Platine Verdier' with yet heavier platter and a rather LONG, no-stretch Kevlar? string. (Tensioning and length is up to the user - like how long is your rack space?)

If I'd have to pick between the 3, I guess I'd be still looking at the 'Verdier' rather.
Then we have the SME system, fast, dynamic --- BUT not necessarily all what you'd call a: really dynamic low register, [or] "air" in the bass line, YMMV.

Now, so we wont loose the thread subject -- where do our 2 contenders, TW & Da Vinci, fall into the scheme of things?

Note: I once tried a no-stretch string in place of a square (stretchy belt) on a RPM 9 ----> result: Plain awful...
Greetings,

Axel, ...... back to the object of this thread: in terms of both - craftsmanship and tooling - I would go for the Raven (but I don't need to....).
Both - Raven (whatever incarnation) as well as Gabriel do both desperately need a working isolation to be able to show their merits.
Putting them "hard-coded" on any solid ground/shelf, rack means simply giving (rather throwing....) away 50% of the possible performance.

As for the RPM 9 with thread.
It needs some experience to get the right "feel" (if you don't have the right equipment) as far as the thread tension goes. Too much - pretty bad. Too less - pretty bad too...
"Right" tension - pretty amazing......

And yes - I would take the Verdier any time above the two contenders.
Preferably a Verdier made prior to 1993.