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SME V vs 309 Sonic Differences

Hi all,

I've read from a few sources one or two line comments like "The SME 309 gives up surprisingly little" when compared to the SME V. I've also seen a comment "most of the difference is in the tonearm cable." But in trying to nail down the true performance difference I have done numerous searches on both google and AudiogoN and can't seem to come up with anything beyond these one-liners.

Does anyone have experience with both arms that can give some insight? I just committed to an SME 309 and am wondering what it sonically gives up. Based on what it gives up, I'm wondering if the SME V would ever make sense as an upgrade, and what upgrade path exists for the 309 itself as either general improvements or targeted changes to specifically narrow the gap with the V. Any personal experiences with any possible upgrades is also welcome.

(Also, on a side note - I've heard some say the SMEs can be dark or too analytical. Is there any truth to that?)

Thanks everyone!
Greg
gsoravil
gsoravil OP
8 posts
 
Axelwahl,

Curious of a few things from your post. What percentage of the overall gain from the stock 309 to the V with cable upgrade would you say was the cable itself? 30%, 50%? Also, do you get the sense the damping trough would help the 309? Lastly, if you don't mind would you expand on what type of table and cartridge you're running so I have a better idea of equipment class?

Thanks much!
daverz
487 posts
 
I have a 309 on my Gyro SE (with the arm decoupler kit). I can't compare to the V, but I can say the 309 sounds neither dark nor analytical.

Compared to an Incognito-wired RB300, it is much less beefy and more refined, sort of like the difference between a pro wrestler and a middleweight boxing champion. Some people might miss the extra fat.

I use an AT33PTG with it, which is a little more compliant than is ideal for this arm (I get a 7Hz lateral resonance frequency), but it's a wonderful sounding combination.

I did replace the stock SME cable with a SigmaAcoustics silver cable. I originally changed it out to get a lower capacitive loading for an MM cart, but was surprised by the difference it made with the moving coil AT33. MCs are not supposed to be sensitive to capacitive loading. . I keep meaning to put the stock cable back to check my perceptions, but haven't gotten around to it.
peterayer
1,382 posts
 
I first used the 309 as it came with my SME Model 10/A table. After a couple of years, I upgraded to the V arm. The difference to my ears was in the bass performance. The V was deeper and more defined/articulate/nuanced. This may be due to the better bearings on the V, the dynamic balance, or the fixed headshell. The dynamic balance dial allows for much easier very small adjustments to VTF. The dissadvantage is a lack of azimuth adjustment with the fixed headshell and easy cartridge swapping. The internal wiring is also said to be better on the V. The sliding mounting base of the V is slightly easier to adjust overhang. To sum up, there are both sonic and functional differences between the two arms. I use the Hovland MG2 tonearm cable.

All that being said, for the extra 2K used price, I might put it toward a better cartridge first and do the arm upgrade second. The Stereophile review of the SME 10/A notes a big improvement in arm upgrade to the IV.vi.
dmccombs
112 posts
 
I agree with Jfrech. You may see some improvement in an arm upgrade, but I have seen first hand how big the tonearm cable upgrade can be.

I started with a generic tonearm cable, then went to XLO, Purist Venustas, then to Purist Proteus. Each time the soundstage, depth, bass and overall clarity improved.

I have the SME IV.Vi and I have friends that have SME arms. they have a strong preference for the Purist Audio tonearms cables. There is a good synergy there.

I am sure other good tonearm cables will match the SMEs well too.

I think a SME 309 with a good tonearm cable will out do a SME V with a so-so cable. Of course, an SME V with a nice cable would be preferred if funds (or wife) allow it.
gsoravil OP
8 posts
 
I think dmccombs comment here puts the nail on it:

> I think a SME 309 with a good tonearm cable will out do a
> SME V with a so-so cable. Of course, an SME V with a nice
> cable would be preferred if funds (or wife) allow it.

Seems to me that if I did justify a V right now there's no way I could afford to upgrade to an appropriate quality cable, whereas with the 309 I can probably justfy something halfway decent. Overall it sounds like dollar for dollar my best bet is the 309 right now.

Unless, of course, the V comes with a truly good cable. But I get the sense that it probably just comes with one that betters the 309's cable.

Well...the 309 arrived today. Can't wait to try it out. Starting with my backup table I am doing a test fit. Love the weight. Nice, heavy, solid assembly.
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