Allnic Verito Z:Owners and those familiar

Dear Matt: Maybe the differences in our each one opinion on the subject is biased for our each one refrence today standards on quality performance.

Mine already changed in the last few months thank's to " new " cartridge alternatives. Today my standards on this area are not only different of what I had but with higher quality.

I don't like to be " steady " and conform with " more of the same " because IMHO I think that we have to help to the music reproduction trying to improve every single day what we are accustom to. Some one says that " evolution " is part of the name of the game and I agree with.

But " evolution " is different for each one and not because each one of us are different as a " whole " but because each one of us are at different step on the audio learning curve " ladder ".
What for you today is great certainly " tomorrow " will be only ok. In the same manner what for Tom is poor today maybe for me is ok and not because one of each is wrong: NO it is only that we are at different level in the audio learning curve and maybe too because some people are more " tolerant" with the audio devices/links than others.

IMHO this " tolerant " diferent range level is what in some way preclude that our lovely hobby grow up and improve faster and the Verito is a good example of this subject ( like many other audio items. ), let me explain a little about:

in USA the people is very exigent in its everyday " services " that they receive: restaurants, what we buy on different kind of stores or supermarkets, how the employees in any store treat us, how we claim for a warranty service in any goods including our cars, etc, etc. ALMOST ALL OF YOU ARE NOT COMPLACENCY WITH WHAT YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO RECEIVE IN CHANGE FOR WHAT YOU PAY but in Audio your attitude is totaly different you pay big money for products like the Verito with out compliant about, maybe next time you will buy an audio item where to that item achieve a decent quality performance you have to find a " little sheet of paper coming for and only from Nepal " ( dramatization. ) where you have to have on hand to hear that audio item.

This " weird " attitude preclude/stop that the designers/builders/manufacturers/distributors be better. Why all of them have to improve when we customers " hold out " everything: we pay with out any compliant and with a " lamb " attitude.

I always ask: WHY? and I don't have a precise answer about.

IMHO the whole Audio Industry grow up for the better at the time that we IMPROVE like CUSTOMERS every single day and not because we need better audio designers.
Today we have what we deserve due to our " lamb " attitude. I invite you to change!!

regards and enjoy the music,
raul.

Forgive me,BUT I would prefer that NO one stand on a soapbox and proclaim that they are the Messiah>Monty Python hit the nail:"He is the Messiah and I should know,I've followed a few"
If you do or don't like a product>>please state your view and the reasons,then let it stand on its' own.
I feel it serves ABSOLUTELY NO PURPOSE to turn an inquizative thread into a back-n-forth banter
We all need to remember that :We reap what we sow.
Gentlemen>>Lets remain civil.If we can't accomplish this than we will all lose out and the forums will become as useful as spent toilet tissue.
I have no control over my thread,but I would respectfully ask that this behavior cease.
Sometimes a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.Many designs that I have contributed to have lost their direction,due to a horse with blinders on mentality.They appear to focus on a single aspect and believe they have reached nirvana.Only to have the product rejected by the "community" as a whole.

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I take offene at the comments concerning We Americans and our lamb mentality.It is possible that you have not been taken advantage of,spent a year while fingers were pointed between a dealer (Hudson Audio) and an importer(Audio Advancements),and finally by the manufacturer,who felt I was not being honest about the troubles WE Americans were experiencing with their representation.
I bought a cartridge ,represented as new and within a year that units' cantilever collapsed,taking out a coil.
I really thought it was something I had done.It was not.I spent considerable monies to have my analog front-end checked for DC volts and shorts.None were found.
Then to finally be offered "to be taken care of",if I were to retract my statements made to JA.
My admiration of the performance of said cartridge,drove me to furnish a retraction against my better judgement>The importer then turned around and "cleared" himself by sending it to JA.Then he promptly turned around and dropped it back in my lap.The stated repair would run $1050 ,plus $200 shipping.
I refused to spend $1350 (it cost me $112 to get the cartridge to JA),plus the $1700 to restore the cartridge.
I ask,would anyone buy a $2K cartridge for over $3K?It is obvious to me that a cartridge rated for 10K hours,has been used extensively to collapse during the first year of use (I may listen to 3-4 sides of an LP,3-4 times a week).
I might have spent even more money chasing people around and going to court to try and resolve this.That is not how I wish to spend my time.In talking with several dealer (on various carts),I find that both have left dealers holding a lot of useless gear and misrepresented product that the consumer is now stuck with.
When you have had this kind of experience,YOU will certainly want to know who is behind the products you wish to include in your beloved system.
The Industry and its's representive persons have changed over the years here in the US,maybe due to OUR throw away society.This is no excuse for the way music lovers are treated when the issue of a "warranty" must finally be executed.Many Warranties (a piece of paper or a notation on a website) are only as good as those who stand behind them.When you deal with a bean-counter,you will always lose-it is strictly a matter of money (think "Fight Club",where Ed Norton is explaining when a company will do a re-call to the passenger next to him on a plane).
I don't know what to say any further.If you can display compassion for fellow human beings,my hat goes off to you.

Dear Tpsonic: The " lamb " attitude is a common one all over the high end audio industry.

We receive new cartridges with a little bent cantilevers or a stylus tiny out of center in cantilever place, amplifiers with different gain/output impedance and frequency response in left and right channel, the same for preamps and other electronics, phono stages with different RIAA curve for each channel, electronics where the builder/distributor say that needs 500 hours to sounds good, recordings/LPs ( 50.00 each and more. ) with off center hole/waves/noise and the like, electronics full of distortions and inaccuracies, etc, etc.

This is what we have in each one audio systems and we accept it and follow buying these kind of audio goods/devices.

Gentlemans, those people are taking our money big money and they are not the culprit but us Customers that we accept it.

This is my concern. We are a " shame " ( no insult to any one. This is not the subject. ) like a Customer.

Tom, an apoligize to deviate your thread but I can't see that day by day our beloved hobby goes down and down in that mediocrity hole and we all Customers are helping to do it deppest. IMHO we are " supporting " products ( like the Verito. Their electronics are not better either. ) that don't deserve it in its today " version " because are more a unfinished product that a real product that is made with an excellence for the quality. I know that all the factors/environment that surrounded the high end audio industry makes things not only complex but in some areas almost impossible to fix but if we don't do nothing on the whole subject or at least " proclaim " about then things will stay almost in the same state for years to come and against the high end audio industry it self ( we are part of that high end audio industry. IMHO we don't exist like Audiophiles thank's to the high end audio industry but the high end audio industry exist thank's to us: mainly. )

Good that you go to the court on that cartridge problem. Of course that if each one made/make the same maybe there are not enought courts to solve the several audio claims and in the other side we don't want to use our time in court.

Anyway, I finish here with my concern in the subject and where my " way of thinking " makes that I share it with all of us. So return to the thread and my apologize to all of you.

regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Just for the record:
I did not at any point say the Verito did not sound "decent" - someone putting words in my mouth. I said I couldn't make it sound as good as in David's system. Well, his system, at the moment all Allnic gear - not tables/cables and arms, of course, sounded and sounds incredible. The Verito sounded wonderful in my system; any number of poor, woe-begotten, unenlightened, friends and acquaintances, audiophile and not, love it and have heard no issues with it. Peasants. All I have been/am doing is tweaking to try to bring the performance up even more. Hardly a shocking and unusual practice for the average audiophile - and perhaps I even stated my misgivings with some degree of hyperbole (not patronization, I hope)- also pretty unusual for audiophiles...What is unusual for some audiophiles, apparently, is knowledge of the commercial history of the development of some of the "giants" in the industry. Go read a review or two of an ARC SP9 (MK what?) for one example of thousands. As for "progress," go listen to the 1959 recording of Louis Armstrong's band "Satchmo plays King Oliver".
By the way, is this how you spell "megalomania"? I have no more time to participate. So please excuse me: I have to go tend to MY obsessive-compulsive disorder(s) now.
Good luck, all!