Upgrade from TW Acustic Raven AC-3 to what?

Dear Dertonearm, Sorry to see you go. We could discuss it privately. I allowed all along that my reasoning could be faulty, but I have yet to hear the science-based counter-argument from you for your thesis that higher mass of the slate would result in a longer run of the billiard ball (which of course leads to the more relevant argument that higher mass platter per se gives better sonics). To say that your proposition is a well known given fact for billiard tables is not convincing to me in the slightest. It seems too obvious to say it but it was once a well known given fact that blood-letting is the best treatment for infections.

Dover, if you did not have your concept of how the servo mechanism works in a direct-drive turntable, would you still say the sound of an SP10 Mk3 is "chopped up"? What do you think is the frequency of servo action once the 22-lb platter of the Mk3 is up to stable speed? I would guess it is not sufficiently frequent to give the phychoacoustic effect of "digititis". I think your impression may be biased by your preconceptions. It happens to all of us. I am running an SP10 Mk2 right next to a Lenco w/idler drive. Comparing the sounds of the two, I hear nothing like what you describe. Since the Mk3 platter is 3 times heavier than that of the Mk2, I expect the Mk3 would be even less likely to exhibit the artifact you describe.

The Black Night does not use a teflon trust plate, but considering the 1-2 gm force of stylus I don't get the sponginess of an teflon trust pad once compressed. I wouldn't understand it w. an air bearing as well. The only issue w. an air bearing would be the variations in pressure etc which I have no experience with.

Black Night compared to Raven AC? It is more open on top and yet has much the same character in sound. Difficult to explain, you need to hear it. It is earily silent. But shortcomings that were missing on the AC in the vinyl chain are apparent w. the BN.

The easiest way to compare the 2 is to say where the best SACD releases was close to Vinyl w. the AC, on the BN I need to start from scratch. Kind of upsetting as I wish digital w. all its convenience has a prayer. SACD is close, very - but then go listen to the AC. You will be shocked. Then listen to the BN and the shock leads to disappointment in digital. But... Real to Real is still the best I have heard. And that is an even bigger step up. Just not for me.

Transrotor Apollon, maxed out with 80MM platter, Magnetic drive bearings, 3 motors, SME V, and outboard Transrotor drive controller with manually adjustable fine tuning for speed. I am just saying, for me, my turntable is the "LAST" part I will ever think about changing for my main system, forver. Non-Suspended on Clearaudio MontBlanc turntable stand. I have never had any issues that people talk about with many other turntables; no bass feedback even at 100db plus levels and a large 15" subwoofer, no vibration pick up from walking, absolutely quiet and very stable. Ultra black backgrounds and velvety smooth highs with that silence between instruments and delicate and intricate breathing and parting of lips that you can hear in a lot of music, but just can't because the system is not high resolution enough.

I am not making a sales pitch, but if your system is already offering you all of that, then you have reached virtually the end of the upgrade road, the expenses from here on out will be for exotic materials and who knows what else to give you that .05 increase in quality.

I too was on the hunt for an end of life upgrade path years ago, and that is exactly what I did. I only worry about changing tubes out now when I need to and never the turntable, except when it is time to retip the Benz. I have a spare MC for that very purpose.

Good luck.
Ciao,
Audioquest4life

Audioquest,

I saw one of your Transrotors in HK. Very nice bling :-)

Laws of physics say that for every action there is a reaction, therefore any "give" in a bearing means you are losing the leading edge ( I think you will find the downwood pressure/energy of the minute stylus tip is surprisingly high ). For an air bearing or magnetic bearing to be completely rigid they would have to have infinite pressure - impossible. The only benefit of air bearings is that they are much cheaper than a decent mechanical bearing that does not induce vibration and noise, they dont wear out and they are more forgiving of poor set up ( soft bearing = soft sound ). Remember Enid Lumley of TAS - drop the air pressure until it fouls and then raise it slightly - this gives you the softest mushiest sound possible.
Lewm
I can only draw on experience - listening to the L07D demonstrated the later Goldmund direct drives were cogging, similarly when comparing the SP10 Mkiii against the Mkii you can clearly here the instability of the Mkii. The mkiii is the best dd I've heard - I'm just not totally convinced. I would not be averse to picking up an SP10 mkiii for experimentation to find out more.