2. analog
  3. 1260310593

New TT-- new problem

Hello all,
I'm a recent vinyl convert and have just upgraded my analog front to the VPI Scout with the JMW-9t tonearm and the Soundsmith Aida moving iron cartridge. I also use the Boston Audio carbon mat, which I also used with my previous tt. The rest of my system consists of:
Soundsmith MMP3 phono preamp
Rotel RA-1062 integrated amp
Totem Acoustics Hawk speakers
Kimber SilverStreak interconnect from tt to phono amp
Audioquest Copperhead interconnect from phono to main amp
Monster entry level (around $150 if I remember correctly) speaker wires.

My previous tt was the Music Hall MMF-5.1 with a premounted Goldring GL 2200 MM cart. After I got the MH, I stopped listening to my CDs; the sounds of course lacked the dynamics, clarity and lower end tightness of a better setup, but the warmth, lush character of the sound and a lack of any harshness, which would make me want to listen for hours with no fatigue, just blew me away.

Needless to say, after I upgraded to the Scout and the SS cart (plus adding the SilverStreak), I expected to be blown away again given the step-up. No so. Perhaps it is a mental factor of my great expectations, but I'm hearing exaggerated highs and loose end, and the overall sound lacking the involvement I had experienced with the Music Hall and the cheap Goldring cartridge. Another factor is that I am a perfectionist and a novice to a tt set-up and I've been very frustrated with not being 100% sure everything is set up as it should be.

I had the cart mounted by my dealer, who also set up the tonearm, including the VTA. I have since tinkered with the VTA to see whether it makes any difference, but I've yet to hear it. I also tried to correct the azimuth as it looked as if the cart was leaning slightly to one side. (As a side note, the user's manual VPI supplies with the Scout is nothing short of useless. In my opinion, it presupposes analog acumen well beyond a novice, but then states what must be rudimentary knowledge for any more advanced vinyl lover. It makes no mention of the VTA, for God's sake!) As a result mu frustration has grown as I'm not sure whether everything is set up optimally. The tonearm/cartridge match should be good given the effective mass and compliance of the combo and according to the resonance chart Michael Fremer emailed me. Same with the load capacitance of the cart (100 pf) and the preamp (also 100 pf).

I wonder if it is possible that the cart needs to break in; also the Silver Streak are considered rather "hot" and emphasizing high frequencies, at least until they break in. Also, the Scout sits on a rack with metal frame with glass shelves, which doubtless doesn't help. I've ordered a cutting board from Michigan Maple and Isoblocks from Mapleshade Audio, which hopefully will help with the apparent harshness of the setup. That said, I still can't quite get over the fact that a much more inferior tt and cart sounded seemingly warmer right out of the box.

Finally, I wonder whether the upgrade simply exposed the limitations of the rest of my system, and it was ultimately a mistake to replace an $800 package with $2800 worth of analog equipment without upgrading the amplifier at least.

I apologize for the long post, but as fellow audiophiles, I hope you can understand my disappointment and offer any advice or suggestions. Thank you very much!

actusreus
audiofeil
4,011 posts
 
>>12-09-09: Etbaby
2. Set you tracking force to the middle of the recommended weight range while the cartridge is breaking in.<<

Bad advice.

Set your tracking force close to the max recommended VTF. The suspension needs this to fully settle in.
buconero117
2,311 posts
 
Where is the dealer in all this? Seems there is a problem, most likely set up or maybe some part of the rig is now defective/damaged. In any event, the dealer should be able to directly help you with an on site visit. You spent $2800 for an upgrade, that is missing. Not withstanding your dealer did the mounting etc., assuming it was done correctly is still open question. VPI makes great equipment. There should be a clear, improvement. Lean on the dealer to help solve your issues and let them understanding you will not be back for further upgrades if they do not. Isn't this is what brick/mortar selling is all about?
actusreus OP
733 posts
 
Thank you all for excellent advice. I will lose the mat, even though it definitely helped with the Music Hall. Also, a maple cutting board from Michigan Maple and Isoblocks from Mapleshade are on their way to help offset my iron and glass rack's poor isolation properties.

As far the phono stage, my Rotel doesn't have one, so the Soundsmith is the only one I have on hand right now. However, I'd think that it should be a good match for a Soundsmith cart, shouldn't it? The capacitive load of the cart is equal to the input load of the preamp at 100 pF plus the cables will add more, but it's my understanding that this should not be a problem unlike when the cart has a higher capacitive load (e.g., 400 pf) than the preamp. In fact, Soundsmith considers carts with 100 and 200 pf, virtually the same. Admittedly, I am rather a novice to analog and my understanding of much of the terminology is still quite basic. Please feel free to educate me if appropriate here, or perhaps point me into the right direction.

Finally, I'd like to make sure that the VTA is set properly, or at least that I know what I'm doing. From the description on musicdirect of the JMW-9T, this upgraded version of the JMW-9 Standard has "a low friction bearing mounted on a solid stainless steel rod with markings to set VTA (Vertical Tracking Angle)." The manual makes no mention of it and I'm not sure what to be looking for. Do they simply mean the threads on the shaft of the rod as you move it up or down? This could hardly be used for precise adjustment. Would getting a test LPs help dial things in? Some of the descriptions of the test LPs sound kind of intimidating to me. And they're expensive!

Again, I sincerely appreciate your input and advice. This forum is indeed an invaluable resource to us all.
cjlover
20 posts
 
Viridian offers valuable advice. Take some time and let things settle in. It's
been my experience that when you change something in the system, the
balance that you are used to hearing has been changed. In your case, from
warmer to brighter. Your new TT set up is probably capable of revealing more
detail than your previous set up, in my system this almost always reveals itself
in the higher frequencies and as a result the warmth you had has been changed.
2 examples, I tried Transparent Ultra MM2 speaker cables to replace my aged
Transparent Ultras from 15 years ago. No doubt the MM2s revealed more of
what was possible, great detail and cleanness - but it was all on the top end
and I gave them back to my dealer because I preferred the sound of my old
cables. The dealer thought I was nuts but I know what I like and don't like.
Second and more to your situation, I have a gyrodec in the main system with
the Michell 250 and a Benz Glider that replaced a Grado Sonata. The Benz is
much more resolving and refined than the Grado but the Grado was very musical in a way the benz is not. My second table is an old Thorens 125 II with the TP16 arm and a 100 dollar grado on it. There are records and recordings I can play on that system that are almost unlistenable in the main
one. In some cases, less is more, but with good recordings on good vinyl the
main system can't be beat. Anyway the other thing I'll pass along came from
the guy I bought my CJ PR 16 LS from and that is that it is most often better
to tune the system you have than to get into the endless cycle of buying new
equipment - unless of course you just like buying different equipment - which is fine too. But to me equipment is a means to an end. You've bought some nice equipment and it'll sound good given time. Before I messed too much with anything I'd talk to your dealer - that's why you paid the premium
to buy from him and not here on Audiogon. Same reason I bought my gyrodec from my dealer as well. He set it up for me because I didn't have the
experience or desire to mess with it, and I wanted it right so I didn't have to think about it. If after some time things don't improve, that's when you start
changing things. And there's no shortage of valuable information here to help
in that regard, but your dealer would be the first guy I'd talk to and give him a crack at checking the set up and if it turns out all is well there see what he'll
do for you on a different cartridge. Happy Listening!
daverz
487 posts
 
I have no experience with the Soundsmith moving iron carts, but for MM carts, changing the capacitive load, even within the "acceptable" range specified by the manufactuer, can greatly change the frequency response. Apart VTA, azimuth, and alignment, it's one of the few parameters you can change to effect the cartridge sound, all other things being equal.
More to discover