Cart not parallel after Mint LP alignment?

do their own research about what I think is basic cartridge alignment before coming here with threads on how/why their cart is twisted in the headshell. If the OP had done that, we wouldn't be getting this attitude of how it must be all of us who are just bleating sheep with no ears or minds of our own.

Dan,

I came here to try and do some learning on my new protractor and it's alignment. You are making it sound like we are not allowed to post on this forum until we have done 100 hours on "community" alignments or similar.

For the record - I have been doing alignments for years - yet I am not familiar with a cartridge NOT being straight in the headshell and found this whole concept to fly in the face of thousands of bits of info I have read over the years.

As mentioned way earlier in the thread - I "get" the fact that using the cantilever as a guide can indeed make the cart body sit a little canted. But then I took this theory a step further and asked myself - what if the stylus tip itself is not square to the cantilever? If that's the case - then this whole exercise of microscopic lineup can be pointless. The Mint LP tractor can be useless...in fact all protractors can be useless.

Therefore - I can also understand the point of Rauliruegas and others who say...pick your line and if it sounds good - it sounds good.

Not sure about some folks - but I didn't get into audio to get math lessons for parabolas, arcs and null points. And as much as I have found this experience to be interesting - I have also found that it's making me seriously second guess everything after each round of adjustments - instead of just enjoying the gear and vinyl.

To wit - this week I picked up a brand new 2M Blue and because this "mint lp" ordeal left such a pain in my eye and a feeling like my trig homework wasn't done - I went old school - stuck it on the SL-1210M5G using the Technics overhang gauge. And it sounds excellent. Took two minutes to setup....

I am still testing the pair of AT440MLa...one "minted" and the other not. Details on that when I get a little more time...

Cheers!

VP

Feeling is mutual, Raul.

VP, you can find all kinds of basic information on the web about the different alignment geometries. No need to go through the math, necessarily. Just the basic overview of each would have explained why your cartridge may be twisted by aligning to a different geometry than the arm was designed for. Others tried to point this out to you.

There is no snake oil here. No exaggerations on findings, and I do know that you are not the first to report not being able to improve your cart's alignment by using the Mint. It could be that your previous alignment was good enough, it could be that there is a problem in your system with resolution. Just a suggestion. I can't really say because I've not heard your system.

I have listened to music with Raul and I know that my hearing is at least as good as his. According to Raul, for instance, I already have both hands tied behind my back because I prefer the "distortion" of "equalizer" tubes to SS. Raul does have a lot of experience and can offer much advice to those who want it.

The Mint is a very good tool that many of us would not be without because we have all found benefit in our systems by using a more precise protractor. Was it huge? No. Probably along the lines of a cable upgrade, but the reduction in error in alignment is palpable no matter what protractor one uses. The "magic" comes from more of the music getting through due to reduced tracking error.

Obviously, we are all free to setup our systems in any way we chose. But however we chose, this does not invalidate what results others may get from completely different methods.

Dear Vocalpoint: +++++ " I "get" the fact that using the cantilever as a guide can indeed make the cart body sit a little canted. But then I took this theory a step further and asked myself - what if the stylus tip itself is not square to the cantilever? If that's the case - then this whole exercise of microscopic lineup can be pointless. " +++++

you are right.

The rule/myth that we have to make the cartridge alignment with the cantilever not the body is only a myth because what you point out and because like I posted when the cantilever deviation is not so " wide " and when the cartridge/cantilever is in " motion/dynamic status " ( playing a recording. ) against static status when is on the protractor the cantilever in motion is " centered " to the body so makes no sense to align the cantilever in the protractor but the cartridge body because in motion the cantilever is centered to the cartridge body.

So, all the people that made the cartridge alignment through the cantilever maybe are wrong because that alignment was made it in static cantilever/cartridge status instead that in real/true cartridge/cantilever position in motion.
Maybe is better to align in the " old " orthodox way: with the cartridge body instead cantilever.

In the other side that people likes the distortions that are hearing with the alignment today have does not means is right.

and don't forget that every time ( for the purist/perfeccionist that change every record side or every record track. ) you change VTA/SRA you have to re-align if you want to be where you was before the VTA/SRA change.

I think that we can but we can't be so perfeccionist on the subject ( just like with VTA/SRA ) because we need time to enjoy music, then we have to take some " average " accurate each one " roads " to make that: hear and enjoy the music, that IMHO is the main reason why we are " here "!!!!!

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Dear Raul, The other reason or the main reason VP's cartridge was not aligned to his headshell was because his MintLP protractor was designed for Stevenson geometry, whereas the tonearm on his Technics tt was designed for Technics geometry. So, even if he were to use the cartridge body as his guide, his cartridge would have ended up twisted with respect to the headshell. At least this is what I understood from reading his initial posts.

I have read elsewhere, on Vinyl Engine I think, that the Technics geometry gives no null points across the surface of the LP, and most think it is therefore better to use Stevenson, the closest of the standard choices, when aligning cartridges in the tonearm on the Technics SL series tts. I guess this is why Yip chose Stevenson.

By the way, do you really think a bent cantilever straightens itself out under dynamic conditions of playing an LP? Sometimes, maybe.