What MC for $1,000-$2,000?

Well here are my thought so far;

1.0 The change from the 103R to the AC-2 in the same table is night and day in clarity. The SAME set-up on both. I'd be hard pressed to say that the T.table and tonearm is the "major" culprit. Minor, yes, major, no. I am not hearing minor nuances in sound. It's like a pair of JBL L36's verses Advents. The room, stands, speaker wire, or electronics won't swap what you prefer to hear.

The extremes of audio are fun, because they are so nuance that you can always feel right about, with the changes being so small as to be less significant overall. But if I change my speaker or cartridge...my wife will KNOW from the change in the fundamental nature of the stereo's sound. Has she ever heard wire, stands, line cords, platter mats, amplifiers...no, the nuances are too small.

Yes, a heavier arm is better for the MC pick-ups, but an AC-2 is not what I would call very "low" complinace. Yes, the DENON 103r is (about 1/3 as compliant). One of the major factors in all this is indeed the compliance of the cartridge more closely matching tonearm's range. So, I am looking to keep thing at or near the AC-2. I 100% agree that that detail isn't probably a detail.

The series III arm can be set-up to be more "massive" with additional counter weights and paddle sizes to get it to the "OK" range.

But to say a T.table outweighs a cartridge is like saying speaker stands outweight the speaker. They are important, but in no way have I EVER heard a magic T.table and tone arm make a mediocer cartridge sound good. SLIGHTLY better, but not a big jump to anywhere. Is the track more important than the runner?

2.0 True, MC cartridges break in some. What I hear is far from "break-in". The basic 103r signature is simply unacceptable long term. The sound is far and away from breaking in to even come remotely close to the AC-2.

3.0 I sold hi-fi for seven years through school, and I NEVER NEVER heard a great piece of gear sound WORSE than a so-so piece of gear that was benefitted by being stuck on a better turntable or wired better, or you name it. Yes, we tried, being dirt poor, to make a "super" system out of cheap designed gear. The better stuff stayed better, and the so-so stuff got better but was never great. A crappy piece of gear doesn't turn like magic with the right cable, platter cover, stand, line cord ETC. Improve, yes (sometimes) but there are no leaps in sound that eclipse the mechanics at each end.

4.0 A speaker or cartridge (yes, with the the tone arm) is a hugely mechanical device limited predominantly by its built-in mechanics. You can't change that. About all you can do is provide a basis to allow what is there to be the best it can be (tonearm). But, most of what you hear is built-in to the cartridge (especially sonic timber, which is as much a material puzzle as mechanics, they tend to go with one another).

My Quatros "broke-in" over time, but trust me, they NEVER sounded like my 1979 B&W 801's. I don't care what I do to either speaker, they are not going to marry the same sound, ever. Oh you can do things to make either better, but far from the same.

A good cartridge will sound better on an ideal set-up, but it will still sound basically very good on what I have today. The bath water doesn't make the baby.

Let me 'splain this to you Rower. This is nothing new and it's not rocket science.

An average cartridge on a great table/tonearm will outperform a great cartridge on an average table/tonearm all day, all night, today, tomorrow, and forever. Knowledgable audio folks know this and have lived it.

With some experience, you'll be there too.

Good luck.

The cartridge is fine but it's not a good match for your tonearm, and the tonearm isn't a good match to the Denon 103R. The SME III is too light by a wide margin. You had prior success with the 103D because it is more than twice as compliant as the 103/103R, and works well in the lower-mass arms that were common during its period of manufacture. You have to keep in mind that just because a Denon cartridge is labelled a "103" does not mean its compliance and dynamic characteristics will be identical between variants. 103/103R, 103D, 103M, 103S all have distinctly different compliance, cantilever, output and diamond shape specs, for example.

The 103R will come to life in tonearms with effective mass of, on the light side 12g (you will want to add a supplemental mass shim when you mount the cart) to roughly 20g. In the proper tonearm, a 103R will give your speakers plenty to resolve.

Phil

>>Yes, a heavier arm is better for the MC pick-ups, but an AC-2 is not what I would call very "low" complinace. Yes, the DENON 103r is (about 1/3 as compliant). One of the major factors in all this is indeed the compliance of the cartridge more closely matching tonearm's range. So, I am looking to keep thing at or near the AC-2. I 100% agree that that detail isn't probably a detail.<<

Denon compliance ratings are measured at 100 Hz. The standard spec for most cartridges is to measure compliance at 10 Hz. Accuphase, IIRC measures at 10 Hz. To reconcile the difference, a 100 Hz compliance rating should be multiplied by 1.8. There's some argument whether the multiplier should be 2.0, 1.5, etc. 1.8 works about right, in my experience. So the Denon 103R compliance rating of 5 is not "1/3 as compliant" as the Accuphase. It's more like 15 for the AC2 vs. 9 for the 103R. The 103D works out to 21.6 on an apples to apples basis.

Even the AC2 is not really in its sweet spot in the SME III, but the combination gets into the working zone, whereas the 103R motor is just not being worked in that arm. A 103D would be deep in its zone so my suggestion is to go back to that, if you aren't going to upgrade the tonearm. Another route: you have a good dynamic match for a Denon DL-S1 or a DL304. A DL-S1 is right at the threshold of your price range and will easily best many or most cartridges at the top of it. However, my better advice is to upgrade the arm, for more reasons than changing effective mass.

Phil

Rower30,
As others have stated, the compliance mismatch between effective weight of the arm and the Denon103R, the fact that the Denon 103R was not broken in and the AC-2 was broken in would make a big difference, and the fact that the AC-2 was probably a better cart in the first place, all contribute to the result you got.

However, as a few others have stated, and as I tried to state 'diplomatically' in my first response, a semi-decent cart will take you a LONG way. Audiofeil has it right - a great table/arm+ halfway decent cart will sound better than the world's best cart on a not-so-good table/arm setup. If it doesn't, then you know you have other problems in the system.

This is not so much a baby and bathwater situation as it is a situation of asking "who would you rather have in your living room? Audiofeil in a really expensive diamond-studded bikini? or Miranda Kerr in a bikini covered with mud?"

Disclosure: I have never seen Audiofeil in any kind of bikini but I know how I'd answer anyway.