What MC for $1,000-$2,000?

Constraint is relative. To go with a heavy arm just puts the constraints somewhere else, and my wallet, too, as I'd have to buy two components verses one.

I listened to a well broken-in 103R on a heavy arm, and it was better, but it still had a more opaque midrange sound like music was coming off a flat plate. Highes were noticably not as open, either. I stuck my so-so AC-2 set-up T.table in and the world opened up again. I'm sorry guys, but the 103r is OK, but not much better than the price in my listening. I have no beef with DENON, but the AC-2 is still WAY better sounding even in my tone arm. Sure, it cost more. But we're talking SOUND right now. I can do much better, even with my tone arm, than the 103r...or even my AC-2. I would not settle for the 103R even with a heavier arm!

The DENON is quiet (conical stylus tracks way less of the record surface), however. And the bass was always nice. It just lacks clarity and dynamics in the midrange and open extension on top.

I liked my old 103D mostly because it was running DQ-10's and it's been years since I listened to one. What I do know, is that the AC-2 kicked it out of bed A to B compared on that same system and arm, which is WHY I have the AC-2 today. I was hoping that the "improved" 103r would narrow the gap. I think with what I have heard now, I'd say that the stock 103r is WORSE than a stock 103D. The Quatros are much less forgiving than the DQ-10, too.

"Keep in mind that Denon publishes their dynamic compliance specs relative to 100Hz. The actual compliance at 10Hz would be considerable higher than the spec at 100Hz. Its this little discrepancy that explains why the 103 and 103R perform better than expected in lower mass arms. The actual compliance at 10Hz is something more like 10-11 X 10-6 cm/Dyne for the 103/103R from; http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/messages/47/473022.html

My old lit for my 103D shows 12x10-6 cm/Dyne on the 103D @ 100Hz so taking your 1.8 times that is ineed about 21.6 cm / Dyne compared to my Accupase at 15 x 10-6 cm/Dyne. Also, to get 103R's working, most get the conical stylus replaced, too. Even Soundsmith reworks the 103r's stylus and suspension. I sure do not hear, or agree with the statement that the 103r, "perform better than expected" on low mass arms..I think you can agree with that.

So much for the 103D or 103r, I'm wanting better than that, it is out there, and the AC-2 says so even at 15 x 10-6 cm/ Dyne on my arm. THAT I hear everyday.

So I have yet to hear a PEEP about what to do other than fan boy the 103r or make it work. I don't WANT to "make" the 103r work. I've hear it (I have one to sell). If you think that's the end all to your knowledge, fine. I already know that there is better out there if my AC-2 is strutting it stuff like it is. I want to hear about THOSE options!

I am a long time AC2 owner, and understand your objection. The 103r is a good cartridge, needs alot of break-in on the suspension, needs a heavy arm, but brother - it will not sound like the AC2, which sounds alive in comparison.

Looking at the Nakatsuka design family, it starts with your ac2, then onto Monster alpha's, and then the present day Zyx's. Happy hunting.

>> I have no beef with DENON, but the AC-2 is still WAY better sounding even in my tone arm.<<

Aboslutely. The AC-2 is at least a serviceable dynamic match to your SME III. The 103R is not.

>>The DENON is quiet (conical stylus tracks way less of the record surface), however. And the bass was always nice. It just lacks clarity and dynamics in the midrange and open extension on top.<<

The 103R is guaranteed to lack clarity and dynamics, and sound dull on top in a very low mass tonearm. Don't use it that way.

>>I liked my old 103D....I was hoping that the "improved" 103r would narrow the gap. I think with what I have heard now, I'd say that the stock 103r is WORSE than a stock 103D.<<

The 103R is an improvement on the plain 103, primarily as a materials and build quality evolution. The earlier 103D was however a *design* evolution from the 103. It was product of an R&D spur for lower mass tonearms taking hold during the '70s, which began with the 103S and culminated with the 103D. Some might say this evolutionary stub ended with the 103M, the last of the high-compliance 103s, but it was different in enough ways to be its own peculiarity. In any case, the 103D is in the realm of latitude to be usable with your arm and sound good. And overall, those of us deeply familiar with it consider the 103D superior to the 103R by a significant margin. A 103R *is not* as good as a 103D, nor should it be perceived as an intended improvement over 103D.

>>I sure do not hear, or agree with the statement that the 103r, "perform better than expected" on low mass arms..I think you can agree with that.<<

That audioasylum poster is knowledgeable and experienced. His reference to 103R usability with "lower mass" tonearms isn't the same as saying "low mass," as in your 5g eff mass SME III. You have to understand his context is posting into a group populated by many who contend you need a minimum 20g eff mass tonearm to properly use a 103/103R. Ed is making the point that there's more latitude than that. It will work with a 12g Rega arm, for example, but that's medium mass. Your 5g SME is too far out of range to be included in Ed's reference.

>>So I have yet to hear a PEEP about what to do other than fan boy the 103r or make it work. I don't WANT to "make" the 103r work.<<

I've given you two specific suggestions that will work well in your arm, and give you the essential assets of your AC-2 and Denon tone density: the higher compliance Denon DL-304 and DL-S1. The DL-S1 plays in the bigs. You might also try an Ortofon Cadenza Black. If you get open-minded about upgrading your tonearm to at least a medium mass, modern-bearings device, ala a Rega RB1000 or similar, the 47 Labs MC Bee should nail the sound you seek - just not in your SME III.

Phil

Who knew that more than 35 years later, Ivor Tiefenbrun's sales shtick would still rule the analog world? I've never found that the turntable is more important than the cartridge, and I've long known that toe-tapping or "following the tune" has absolutely nothing to do with audio quality. Perhaps never in the history of marketing has such an insipid claim had a longer life. But the man did build a nice turntable.

-Bob

Couldn't agree with you more on that "following the tune" BS!!!