Why do old tubes sound better than current tubes?

The best answer I have ever heard is that some of the coatings used in the olden days are too environmentally unfriendly to be used in modern production. Another thing that you cant discount is the knowledge gained by experience of the toobe makers of old; trade secrets, lost in the sands of time :) Also, people were forced to use their BRAINS in those days.

I am happy to hear that at least some new production tubes are getting rave reviews but I remain skeptical about preamp tubes. I have seen so called preamp tube shootouts where the reviewer tested one tube of each type and drew concrete conclusions from such a limited sample. Anybody who has ever built gear or rolled a lot of tubes knows that two good preamp tubes from the same production code can sound vastly different - not to mention sonic differences due to minor changes in plate and heater voltages.

Mike

My experience and that of many Doshi Alaap (preamp) owners is diametrically opposite to Viridian's, which leads me to believe that the design of the component is a critical factor in which tubes work best.

If a component is designed and executed from the ground up with a modern tube in the circuit, as Nick's designs are, then that tube may provide the best performance. I've done plenty of NOS tube rolling and Nick and other owners have done more. I've found one vintage line stage tube that slightly outperforms its current production equivalant in some sonic areas, though not all. But in both phono stage tube positions no NOS tube compares with readily available, fairly inexpensive new tubes from the likes of JJ.

In a vintage component, or a modern component designed around vintage tubes, the opposite may apply. I doubt there's any other hard and fast rule about old vs. new that we'd get much agreement on.

thanks for the responses, all - this was quite informative. i ask as i have just purchased an aesthetix calypso and find it to be an exceptional preamp, however, have read that tube rolling with particular NOS tubes can make it even better. i was considering telefunkens, but was curious as to what it was specifically that made the old tubes sound better. sounds like there's some lore/nostalgia, some materials, and some design (component and tube) that factor in here.

Why do old tubes sound better?

They have more experience. ;-)

I think it’s simpler still. Especially if you think about the times the vintage tubes were made.

Demand. Materials. QA.

Back in the 40’s, 50’s, & even in the 60’s, times were different. The thinking was more geared towards making a better product than a cheaper one more often than not. Materials too weren’t in short supply usually, nor were these materials skimped upon employing mere percentages of this or that instead of using 100% of them. Quality control too was on a higher level as well I would think. During those times, sales were generated by producing ‘better’ and not quite so much as making the ‘faster and cheaper’ products, though the latter always will be a facet of business.

Probably as important too, the apathy level on the job was lower than it is in the workplace these days and may well have played a significant part in the whole of things.

True too, those original ‘tube magicians’ that were around then aren’t around now, nor is the content of their heritage. Doubtless few magicians’ apprentices were getting on board in the business as silicon was becoming all the rage in the late fifties and sixties when the transistor came into being. So I suppose it came down to a main precept of business, ‘demand’.

You gotta know too, tube makers were almost like VHS machine & tape makers… lots of brand names but scant few actual makers. RCA was a giant in the tube industry, and their plans changed in house as well in which direction they would be going forward with.

That old adage “They don’t build them like they used to!” still has merit and reasons why.

There are some pretty decent tubes being made today though. Even in Russia. I have some and enjoy them a lot. CED Winged C EL34. I’m thinking about trying some of the KT 77s too as mentioned above… maybe.

In the 9 pin arena matsushita Elec. Made some back in the 70’s that I feel are on par with some of the far earlier Amperex 7308 & 6922s. I had some of them a while back.

On the flip side, I tried some of the Tung Sol 5881 re-issues and sent them back quickly.

As for the lable NOS…. I feel that too is more myth than fact. 50, 60, & as much as 70 year old tubes no one ever used? Really. How do you know? You had them in the closet for all of that time? Sure.

With tubes though, it’s as much about the vendor as it is about the tube itself. There’s one or two vendor’s I simply WILL NOT buy from again. Period. There are other’s of course that I’ll accept whatever they sell me as golden, and trust implicitly.

… or it could just be things change.

Perhaps tube topology designers ought to alter the other ingredients in their designs so as to attempt to recapture nostalgia by utilizing these newer tubes instead of emulating the ‘SS like’ sound so commonly found in today’s tube amps. After all, tubes are tubes and should IMHO have a distinct voice well apart from that of chips and silicone.