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SUT shootout

Over the past six weeks I have had the chance to finish a SUT "shootout". I thought I would post my impressions.

My system config for the shoot-out consisted of the following:

TT: Nottingham 294
Tonearm: SME 312S
Cartridge: Koetsu Rosewood Signature Platinum & Benz Ebony
Preamp: Shindo Masetto
Amp: Atma-sphere S30 and Tube Audio Lab 300B
Speaker: Hawthorne Trio (Biamped Open Baffle Speaker)

Music listened to covered multiple genres (rock, jazz, classical) in both 33 and 45 rpm formats. Because of the different turn ratios of the products I used a SPL meter and tried to listen with volume at roughly 80-85db.

My subjective ranking is as follows:

1. Hashimoto HM-7
2. Auditorium 23 "Hommage"
3. Hashimoto HM-3
4. Modified EAR-834P (Upgraded parts and tubes)
5. Sowter
6. MC from Shindo Masetto (Lundahl based transformer)
7. Cinemag
8. Altec (DIY)

The good news is that all of the above are extremely musical. There were no poor performers. I think most people would be happy with any of these products on their own. It was only in direct comparison where some of the differences became apparent.

The top three (Auditorium Hommage and both Hashimoto's) were a notch above the rest because they had both huge soundstages and the ability to dig deep into the music in regards to detail. The Hashmito HM-7 and Auditorium further distinquished themselves from the HM-3 by being more nuanced and textured. The Koetsu's warm tone came across better with these top 2. The tone using the HM-3 was more neutral in character. In comparing the HM-7 to the Hommage, I felt the HM-7 had a slightly better ability to separate instruments in complex musical arrangements and had a slightly lower noise floor.

The EAR and Sowter were very good at showcasing detail and texture but the soundstage was smaller than the top 3.

The internal SUT from the Shindo preamp had the most unique sound of the group and was the toughest to grade. It had the lowest noise floor and really shined in certain types of music (intimate vocals or small scale jazz/chamber music). However, the soundstage of the Masetto (Lundahl) was the smallest of all the products and when it came to larger scale music (symphonies especially) it had a harder time separating instruments.

The Cinemag and Altec were, not suprisingly, extremely similar considering their common heritage. The soundstage was larger than the Shindo, Sowter and EAR but smaller than the Hashimoto's and Hommage. Where I felt they came up a little short was in the area of musical detail. Of these two products, I placed the Cinemag higher because I thought it was slightly quieter.

It is interesting to note that the pricing of the products ranged from a low of approximately $350 (Cinemag based SUT) to a high of roughly $5000 (Hommage). My "winner" (HM-7) is priced at approx $1600 for a finished product.

Finally, I am aware that the performance of the products in question may differ substantially with other cartridges and systems so my ranking is a subjective opinion within the paramaters of my system, room and musical tastes. None-the-less, I had a fun time doing it.
sibelius
syntax's avatar
syntax
2,193 posts
 
I should get kicked out of the audiophile club but I think I just got my membership re-approved by simply using the word soundstage so many times in this post

Ok :-)
dougdeacon
3,338 posts
 
Obviously hearing a wide soundstage from a mono recording would indicate a system problem. Further, only a fool would expect any sort of soundstage from multi-miked recordings made in 15 seperate booths, in takes spread over three weeks, all mixed onto a single LP. GI/GO

Soundstage is a viable consideraton only when the original performance had one and the recording at least attempted to capture it. It's a fair bet that any Kenneth Wilkinson recording of any orchestra started with a real soundstage, and that he intended for us to hear it. The fact that he and other skilled recording engineers generally used the barest minimum number of mikes was critical. The more mikes, the more phase confusion. The more phase confusion, the harder it is for ears to identify the size or direction of any particular sound source.

As for quantifying, that's an obsession in itself, but accurate soundstage reproduction requires, at least, a very low system sound floor. The lower the level of detail a system can reproduce, the more soundstage information you'll hear. Phase clarity and lack of distortion also help, since any problems in these areas will confuse, mask or slur directional cues. Very fast, very clear HF response also helps, since our ears are most sensitive to HFs for direction and distance information.

Accurate soundstaging is a byproduct of accurate reproduction. To the extent it exists, it's an indicator of system health. To the extent it's missing, it's an indicator of problems to be investigated and resolved.
dertonarm
1,042 posts
 
Dear Hiho, as for soundstage dimensions in reproduced music - I would recommend getting a first-hand impression of a reference.
Try to find a set-up which does give an illusion of real space, ease and the sense of naturalness in the reproduced "space". It should give you a feeling of being "right" - you should forget about the reproduction at all.
One always need to hear what is possible to find a reference enabling the student of the art to judge the performance of a certain set-up. If we do not know what is possible, we will always settle for the next best.
The last paragraph of Dougdeacon's post of 07-09-2010 gives a lot of truth and insight. If you are out in the wilderness to find, then it shows the path to follow.
thuchan
1,009 posts
 
When we made a phonostage shootout last weekend comparing some good units we discovered again that the Kondo M7 Phono and the Kondo SUT are a nearly perfect match for low output MCs.
zaikesman
3,017 posts
 
Cool thread, the subject of which I'm only just beginning to investigate (tried a CineMag, liked it OK but wound up returning it for tangential reasons, at least for the time being).

But while Dougdeacon has apparently long since moved on from SUTs, and I have not yet begun to load as one might say (I used no resistors, since no provision was made for adding them in the particular SUT I tried), I'd still like to ask why it requires $1K worth of what I'm assuming must be premium resistors in order to figure out optimal values? Couldn't this experimentation be performed first with cheapie resistors to get into the ballpark, and once that's done then finish coming down the homestretch using fewer expensive ones? (Yes, I do at least know that better resistors actually sound better, often much better.)

Furthermore, is it truly necessary to load both the primary and the secondary to get good sound? I would have thought, in my ignorance, that one of the benefits of going with a reasonably well-matched SUT may have been eliminating the need for adding any resistors at all. And indeed, in my short time playing around with the two ratio choices in the model I tried, I found that transformer-loading seemed if anything less critical than what I've experienced with regular resistive loading, i.e., my carts sounded happier at a wider range of nominal loads than has usually been the case going straight into the phonostage's MC section. Which is also something I've read people saying around about using SUTs in general, however you and several other obviously experienced posters above would seem to take exception with this liberal, loosey-goosey point of view...
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