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Surface Noise - another question

On a scale of 1 to 10, my surface noise is about a '1' (1 is low, 10 is high). I have a TNT Jr. w/super platter and upgraded flywheel motor (VPI belts), JMW 10.0 arm, a Benz Glider (High output-not the new 'S' - about 8 years old but probably only 200 hrs on it), Cardas Phono cables, and an innersound phono stage (not set to high gain, 47k ohms, 100 micro farad capacatance setting). I use the Living Voice Carbon record mat and BDR record clamp. I am referring to basically new records, cleaned w/VPI 16.5 with Walker Audio 3 step (or Needle Dr fluid), and Milty Zero Stat. Stylus is always cleaned with either magic eraser or Needle Dr. or the Zero Dust and cartridge is recently degaussed. Rig is as perfectly leveled as possible, on a Billy Bags Pro Stand. VTF set to high side of mfg recommendation - 2.2 grams; speed dead on (VPI SDS, KAB Strobe), VTA is dialed in as all is in focus and azimuth must be pretty close to dead on as my soundstage is spot on. Here is my question - how can I get the surface noise down? (I have heard rigs with NO surface noise). Assuming records are in as perfect condition as you can get, do you think it is the cartridge that is giving me the little surface noise; phono stage? Other? (New TT?)

Appeciate the input of the vinyl gurus - I'm sure you have the answer.
cerrot
roole
13 posts
 
Here you go. Great article about Michael Fremer's system. Costs $350.000 and still got some pops.

http://i.gizmodo.com/5213042/why-we-need-audiophiles
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
12,061 posts
 
One thing that has not been mentioned here is the role the phono preamp plays in surface noise.

Many phono sections use loop negative feedback to execute the RIAA curve and control distortion. These preamps will be found to play surface noise to a much greater degree than a phono section that runs zero feedback.

This is due to a ringing phenomena that can occur in the electronics. It can cause the ticks and pops to be several times their actual duration on the LP surface.

If the phono section is zero feedback with passive EQ, the surface noise can be kept so low that one can easily be fooled into thinking there is no surface artifact at all!

There is also the phenomena of cartridge loading. With low output moving coils, the ringing artifacts of the undamped coils of the cartridge occur at ultrasonic frequencies. In addition, the cable capacitance can interact with the inductance of the cartridge to form a tuned radio-frequency circuit. The result is very much like RF being injected into the front end of the preamp!

This can result in a variety of behaviors, depending on the stability of the preamp. An unstable preamp will have excessive high frequency artifact; this can be tamed by the exactly correct cartridge loading resistor that damps the ultrasonic ringing. This is why cartridge loading is so critical with some preamps.

Now its a simple fact that feedback in electronics is a **destabilizing** feature of design. Conversely zero feedback designs are inherently stable. So if you have a zero feedback phono section, likely you will find that the loading of the cartridge is not critical, although it may affect overall noise.

It is the loading aspect when dealing with a phono section with feedback that can explain why one system is quiet while another of the same components is not.

If done correctly, the LP can seem to be every bit (no pun intended) as quiet as digital :)
macdadtexas
1,794 posts
 
hate to say this, but it could be the room. In fact, it could just be dust drifting on the platter. I find that I sometimes get that problem and spend a lot of time keeping dust away from the equipment area. It looks like you have carpet and curtains (great for sound deadening) that can trap dust, and then release it when you disturb it.

Just a thougt, if everything else is working great.
audiofeil
4,011 posts
 
Better arm and cartridge.

Both are simple average.
schipo
1,268 posts
 
Roole: I find it completely imposible that you detect no ticks, pops or clicks of any kind. I like to ask where do you buy your vinyl from? Must be from the emperor with no clothes.
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