I agree! I love those new bred-breeds. In fact, my friend is now developing a new breed combining the best of Shitsou's and Bull Dog's. It will be called a Bull-Shit.
Considering analog...but nervous
Well, I've been here before. Once again, I'm thinking of venturing into the Analog world, but before doing so, I wanted to pose a few questions to fellow agoners to make sure my head (ears?) are in the right place.
Some Background: My current setup consists of a Modwright Transporter, Musical Fidelity KW 500 (hybrid tube pre/SS Amp), and Focal/JM 1027be speakers. My entire current collection is digital and I have NEVER owned Vinyl before NOR have I ever heard a high-end Analog setup.
My Tastes/musical likes: I am all about soundstage and imaging. Vocal accuracy is hugely important and instrument placing (hence, imaging) are part of what I look for when listening. Genre wise, mostly rock, folk, acoustic and blues. Some jazz as well. I generally try to stick to labels that produce good-sounding material...not over-compressed garbage.
On with the questions:
1. One of the biggest things that has kept me from trying Vinyl thus far is the concern of excessive hiss and crackle/pop that vinyl is known for. Is it safe to assume that purchasing new Vinyl and played on a higher quality setup will reduce (eliminate?) the pops and crackle sounds? I have no problem purchasing exclusively new vinyl, knowing full well that the process of shopping used is what draws so many to this market...
2. If I purchase new vinyl, only play it on a decent player, and store it properly, will I still have to clean it? How expensive is a cleaning machine? Are there (reasonable), less expensive alternatives to a cleaning machine?
3. Based on my integrated (tube-pre,SS amp) and speakers, are these a good match for Vinyl? Does anyone know if the KW 500 Phono input is adequate for a good turntable? My digital system has a tendency to be on the bright side for a lot of material, but not everything. Strangly, even at 31 years old, I can still hear up to around 19Khz so I'm a bit picky about the highs...
4. How complicated is the setup of the TT? Being that I've never worked wtih it before, I'm somewhat intimidated by the "setup" requirements of the equipment. What are the core requirements/knowledge to properly setup a TT.
5. And finally, the most subjective question of all. If I had a budget of about $1,000-$1,500 for a TT, Tonearm and Cartridge, what would be a good starting place? I'd obviously be looking for used here from Agon.
I know this was a long post so thanks for hanging in and reading it all :-). Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
-gh0st
Some Background: My current setup consists of a Modwright Transporter, Musical Fidelity KW 500 (hybrid tube pre/SS Amp), and Focal/JM 1027be speakers. My entire current collection is digital and I have NEVER owned Vinyl before NOR have I ever heard a high-end Analog setup.
My Tastes/musical likes: I am all about soundstage and imaging. Vocal accuracy is hugely important and instrument placing (hence, imaging) are part of what I look for when listening. Genre wise, mostly rock, folk, acoustic and blues. Some jazz as well. I generally try to stick to labels that produce good-sounding material...not over-compressed garbage.
On with the questions:
1. One of the biggest things that has kept me from trying Vinyl thus far is the concern of excessive hiss and crackle/pop that vinyl is known for. Is it safe to assume that purchasing new Vinyl and played on a higher quality setup will reduce (eliminate?) the pops and crackle sounds? I have no problem purchasing exclusively new vinyl, knowing full well that the process of shopping used is what draws so many to this market...
2. If I purchase new vinyl, only play it on a decent player, and store it properly, will I still have to clean it? How expensive is a cleaning machine? Are there (reasonable), less expensive alternatives to a cleaning machine?
3. Based on my integrated (tube-pre,SS amp) and speakers, are these a good match for Vinyl? Does anyone know if the KW 500 Phono input is adequate for a good turntable? My digital system has a tendency to be on the bright side for a lot of material, but not everything. Strangly, even at 31 years old, I can still hear up to around 19Khz so I'm a bit picky about the highs...
4. How complicated is the setup of the TT? Being that I've never worked wtih it before, I'm somewhat intimidated by the "setup" requirements of the equipment. What are the core requirements/knowledge to properly setup a TT.
5. And finally, the most subjective question of all. If I had a budget of about $1,000-$1,500 for a TT, Tonearm and Cartridge, what would be a good starting place? I'd obviously be looking for used here from Agon.
I know this was a long post so thanks for hanging in and reading it all :-). Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
-gh0st
- ...
- 122 posts total
You need to consider the costs outside the initial TT/Cart combo as well. The software is on average $15-$20 for new and much more for the Audiophile pressings. You have stated a preference for new so even a modest collection like mine @ about 250 records is a pile of new CDs. I bought primarily used @ an average of $10-$12. I'm into classic rock primarily and the availability of the highly desired titles has become a problem in my area and the price is moving up in pace. The higher price from what many of you experience is from where I am and I'm extremely picky about condition so I only buy the near mint stuff. A couple used dealers stated they are having a very hard time coming up with inventory now. People leaving vinyl have sold their collections by now or hanging on to them to see where the prices are going to go. There are a great many new re-issues but many are from digital sources I see this personally, as the worst of both worlds but others may not agree. As has been stated you need record cleaning materials that can be as little as $100 to $700. The actual cleaners are give or take $40 a bottle. New inner sleeves run about 20-25 cents each. I'm a firm believer in learning the craft. I built 2 of the 3 tables I have ( Lencos) so I'm not one to drag my TT down to a shop. If you are one of those you must factor those shop costs in, should you upgrade or buy used as you will likely need to install a new cartridge. If you chose to learn how to do things on your own there are things you will need to buy such as balance/scale for VTF, protractors( these can be from free to worth several hundred. Whether you will find it worthwhile is an important consideration. I believe vinyl can sound dramatically better but not always. I personally find it much more album by album which format will sound better than a blanket statement. In closing, all I can give you is my assessment of whether I feel my money was well spent. I started out about 2 years ago in exactly the same spot as you - Ground zero. I have 3 tables ( one cheapy for playing thrashed records) in two systems. I have about $3500 tied up in each rig: TT /arm /cart/ phono stage/cables. I must be useless and lazy but I only play vinyl about 5% of the time, so for me it hasn't been cost effective. However, it has been fun as I love the DIY aspect. Your mileage may vary qualifier in place. Kevin |
Once you settle on your TT/arm/cartridge, you may want to consider a MINT LP protractor. It is about $110 from Hong Kong and there are a few threads about it. Proper cartridge alignment is essential, and this is one fantastic tool. However, if you buy a new rig, the dealer should be able to set it up for you. If you go used, find a knowledgeable friend to help you along. You will surely benefit in time and learning curve. |
There are a few excellent rigs at $1500--the Marantz, the Clearaudio, Rega P5, and some I'm less familiar with from Pro-Ject and Music Hall. At $2500 the choices expand with VPI offerings, the Rega P7, more sophisticated models from Pro-Ject and Music Hall, and a couple that have reputation of challenging the high priced spread--the Well Tempered Amadeus and the Townshend Rock 7 with damping trough option (though by the time you get a tonearm it's more like $3500 or more). If you want it simple and good, I'd go for the Marantz TT-15S1 with included, mounted, set up, balanced and aligned Clearaudio Virtuoso wood-bodied MM cart (it's an $800 cart). Audio Advisor has a closeout demo on sale for $1359.99. Clearaudio makes the Marantz turntable, so there should be exceptional turntable/arm/cartridge compatibility. |
seems that you asked this question once before: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1218926373 |
- 122 posts total