EMT 927 vs. Micro Seiki 5000 or 8000 - different?

Soundlistening,

one of the secrets of the 927 lies in its higher platter mass. In this respect I think people are right when saying that a higher platter mass is crucial for a good TT.

of course we disagree! why not. I need to show you how excellent a R80 plays without EMT phono stage. You will not believe it.

Did you try an external Kondo phono stage with your 927? The 927 seems harmonizing not so easy with external phono stages as the R80 does.  

Thuchan,

Have you tried the 927 with the plexiglass-plate? That does decrease the weight. Some people say that glass on platters is "wrong" but the studio turntables EMT 927 were delivered for the disc-recording industry as a measurement studio turntable the EMT 927 D equipped with a glass-plate instead of a plexiglass-plate.

When you tap on the plexiglass-plate it is not that solid, a bit flimsy to be honest. Okay it offers the added brake, but know needs that at home??? The total mass of the platter is not that high even with the glass platter plate, much less that our cherished SX8000’s. I have from good sources learned that the 1st R80’s platter was heavier, that the 927’s were even less than the R80 and the last 927’s even less.

I would like to talk about a few other aspects that are, from my modest perspective, important.

1) The torque of the motor: This is one 3-phase workhorse and when you attempt to slow the platter with your hand you see how strong the drive is. Do this on a belt drive and.....you know! When done on a Garrard you can slow it quite easy, and other idler drives are in same category. The 927 has a huge torque and power and as such does offer a great control on rotation. Once documented you realize that the 927 offers rotational stability that is amazing, in fact far greater that that of the TT used for the record making!

2) Bearings of the idler mechanism: Look at those bearings and levers...this offers very solid and stable basis for the power and stability of the motor to get to the platter

3) Distance of idler from stylus: Well the 927 was made for 16” records but we only use them on 12” or 10” (those good mono ones!) and this offers another advantage; the stylus is further away from mechanical contact point of the idler and the inside of the platter.

4) Chassis construction: The cast aluminium is a very solid and high mass base for the tone arm. The fact that the motor is mounted on isolation supports prevents it from transmitting energy to the tone arm. The motor is overpowered; the variations in drag generated in the groves do not strain the motor and introduce the potential adverse consequences.

5) The bearing: It is large diameter and very long offering an extremely stable foundation. Apparently the next best thing is a Neumann lathe that the “ultra hard core” analogue boys use as a TT, your next step?

But to conclude: All of this means nothing in reality. The 927 sounds spot on. Is that objective or subjective? We always attempt to come to rational answers to understand why, I offered some above. The rarity of the 927 (and even more so the R80) make these hard to come by. Many have not been serviced and show the toil of time, I have seen quite a few of those! Thuchan, we both went for fully serviced and as per factory specification machines that work as they were designed, this is the only way to go and it requires a particular dedication. You know that I jumped into the "927" following advice from around the world and from one person in particular with whom I share taste in music, “but” I needed to experience it in my setting and to my agenda. I am glad that at this stage we agree; that you considered that my ears were a valid enough reason for you to jump onboard...

And "YES" I am looking forward to engaging my ears with your R80 & Lamm etc……Maybe we will have another pair of EMTied ears with us?

The Kondo testing is on the agenda, work for the time being guess this hobby needs funding!

All fun!

Soundlistening,

I am very thankful for the good advices on EMTs I received from you.

I am wondering why people have written a lot of nonsense which led to an image that Studio EMTs are non musical machines just being used to transport a quick & dirty signal into the air.

These guys of today do not know anything about the Radio Stations and the Studio Work of the 60ies and 70ies managed by people who loved their work and were addicted to quality.

I am often confronted with the opinion that those vintage studio tables are not designed for home audio users and do provide features which no one needs today. This is nonsense again and I could discuss it in detail. Of course some of the features did support fast access and easy adjustments, the latter maybe a no nonsense invention.

Heiner Jacobi writes in Sound Practices, Issue 16: the 930 sounds similiar to the 927 but with less authority and more speed. It is the question of whether you prefer to drive a top  Mercedes or a top BMW! - A Garrard 301 is a good  Austin Minicooper.

Maybe this funny comparison hits the mark a little.

"A Garrard 301 is a good Austin Minicooper".

Thuchan, you said it right and I do agree with you 100%.

Hi Thuchan,
I`m glad you have `seen the light`.There has always been negative views of vintage gear,mostly from dealers and manufacturers who are trying to push lesser products at higher prices.Vintage?,Ha,not Hi-Fi,too expensive,common comments.You now have hands on experience of an EMT;Have a look at the prices been charged for some `high-end`turntables,and the build qaulity;how much would an EMT927 cost in todays market?,100K,200K,more?
A top example is not cheap,but is still a bargain compared to what is currently available.
As for the phono stage,the 139st is highly sought after and commands high prices on the second hand market,(9K).It and the EMT are designed as a unit,and I have not heard better.But you know my stance.See you in May!
best wishes