EMT 927 vs. Micro Seiki 5000 or 8000 - different?

Dear Lewm: +++++ " Does anyone know what is so special about the big M-S turntables, apart from their obvious build quality, which can after all be matched by several of today's high end belt drive turntables? " +++++

IMHO there is nothing especial other than MS was one of the TT heavy weight BD design " pioneers " .

I agree with your friend on " "good" but not mind-blowing " TT and IMHO several today TT's are better and more neutral than the MS.

I had my first " encounter " with MS through an USA japanese audio items importer company named Japanese Stereo that was located in LA ( I think in Wildshire Blvd. ). The model I saw the first was the SX-8000-II and I was no less than " shocked ": beautiful machine when in those times I was playing with Technics SP10s and Denons DD TTs that against the MS looked like " baby's toys ". I never had the money to buy it even that Japanese Stereo had it very good prices. I can't remember the 8000 price but the RX-1500 full equiped ( vacuum plater and the like ) was for 1.3K.

Btw, was through this distributor where I bought my SAECs/Audiocraft/Goldbug/Koetsu/Highphonic/etc, etc japanese tonearms, cartridges, mats, clamps and the like.

Japanese designers trusted on heavy weight TTs, I think that the heaviest was the one from American Sound with a 50kg on the platter alone where the biggest MS has " only " 28kg.
The Final Paruthenon named here weights 140kg and that from AS 170kg. Seems to me that these people were " crazy " about heavy weight and its influence on TT quality performance.

I'm not with that heavy mass used to damp or taking away " resonances/vibrations " ( of course for speed inertia. ) and I think that even today several TT designers and persons that posted here does not find out yet where precisely reside or which is main factor/ characteristic for a neutral TT: heavy mass can't do it, at least is what several TTs shows and showed till today.

+++++ " The motor assembly seems quite large but probably in part due to the incorporation of an elecronic drive system. " +++++

the motor it self was build by a Matushita group company and the TT controls design inside are not first rate, the weight seems to me need it to compensate for the heavy TT platter. Some today TTs comes with a stand alone motor and separate TT control/electronics.

I can tell you that for almost any person that never been in direct " touch " ( other than readed about. ) with the MS ones and bought it IMHO his first impression will be as mine: WOW WOW and certainly that that WoW will translate on a non-true WoW " feeling " about its quality performance level. After the time people learn about and then put these mahines where it belongs against other TTs. Well there are persons either that never learn.

I for good left the MS audio " stage/step " behind and follow " the road " in front/forward: the life is short.

As always only an opinion.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Dear Raul,
you are not an expert on Micro Seiki I conclude from your statements and it seems to me you never listened to a well installed Micro Seiki 5000 or 8000 in a good system - what a pitty. You really missed something.

best & fun only -Thuchan

Raul,

In the case of the high mass Final Audio that I have, I think the key attributes are speed stability. Most suspended table/rubber belts have wow and pitch problems on piano in my experience. I note that many of the high mass designs produced today do not have great power supplies - 20kg platters driven by motors/supplies that look like they couldn't spin a cornflake. As an example of the importance of power supply a friend has a Rega P9 - its key strength compared to the priced competition is timing. Interestingly many years ago when I got my first MIT Reference interconnect there was a bigger improvement using it in the power supply of the Final Lab turntable rather than between pre/power. ( FAR power supply has ac sine wave generator and power amp driving the motor ).

Dear Thuchan: Agree, I'm not an expert on MS I'm only a music lover and an always learning and in " movement " audiophile.

Are you a MS expert?, yes? : well, what makes do you " convert " in a MS expert against a " rockie " like me? what do you mean with a " well installed 5000/8000? are you suggesting that mine was not " well installed "? why is that?, please explain me I appreciate your advice seriously. As you know I'm always ready to learn and improve.Thank you in advance.

Btw, could be /is there any " tiny " possibility that things are the other way around and you did not learn yet enough on the MS whole subject?. I understand you like the easy to mount a tonearm through the MS units but for example in the Acoustic Signature TTs is in different way similar easy but this TT characteristic has nothing to say when we are talking of neutrality and quality performance level or maybe you think that the flywheel makes the difference. I don't know that's why your advise is mandatory.

Anyway, waiting for your learning ( and I mean it. ) answers as other MS owners I think are waiting too. Many of us participate in this forum to share our audio/music experiences and learn from other people audio/music experiences.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Dear Dover: Yes, high mass help to speed stability especialy on BD designs and you are totally right: power supply makes a difference and the MS ones are not great ones, I have to modified my unit and improved but my take is the same with the MS TTs.

I never had the opportunity to heard your Final TT but that " sine wave generator " for those old times means a lot in that power supply design contrary to the MS ones. Today Acoustic Signature TTs works with similar power supply Final characteristic but this is 25 years after/latter!! my hat-off to Kitamura San.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.