A Copernican View of the Turntable System

Of course there will be an "improvement" when you go to the bigger feet. This stuff has become so subjective and so uncontrolled (in the scientific sense) that there is a huge placebo effect. If you are prepared to like it, and if your turntable does not actually fall to the ground, then you will like it. This is in no way meant as an insult to you personally. It's just a part of this crazy hobby.

I see your larger point, Lewm, but really I'm not prepared or fixin' to like any particular kind of configuration. True, I expect the larger feet to make some difference--why shouldn't I since I'll probably end up paying a chunk of change for them?--but whether I prefer that change or not is up for grabs. After all, they'll be easy to sell. Placebo probably would play a larger role if one couldn't sell after trying.

I take a very practical approach to this plinth(less) issue. My table didn't come with an attached plinth, and since I found it to sound pretty darn good without it, I'm sticking with it for the time being and trying out closely related configurations. I can honestly say that if I had some plinth ready to hand, I would immediately try it out to see what difference it makes. I take it that Chris's and Raul's point is to suggest the converse: if you have a plinth, take it off and see what happens--you may be surprised.

In my opinion, that minimal kind of experimentation won't settle the larger debate, but it might transform one's picture of the debate. However, I agree with Dertonarm that even if we had many hands going up saying that their experiment led them to believe plinthless is better, it would still leave a rather large hole in our understanding of why that is (if it is at all). There should be some 'reflective equilibrium', as the philosophers say, between observed findings and theoretical explanation. Pure theory and a rhetorical reference to 'physics' and what it allegedly tells us is pointless when it flies in the face of repeated observation; conversely, 'mere' observation is empty because it just gives us data points without a theory to tie them together.

At any rate, Yahoo Japan is not easy to navigate. Are there any other options to find these feet? I've been perusing Hi-Fi Do Japan. Very cool site--but alas no feet as of yesterday.

that the platform has become your plinth

Well OK...... then turntables with plinths which sit on bases have two plinths?
:-)
Let us agree that at least we 'Nuders' are eliminating one plinth?

And does that mean our amps on shelves or stands also have 'plinths'?
And our tuners, CD players etc?
How about our 'plinthed' speakers?.....because they sit on the floor or stands?

I think you have to understand the lengths that most of us go to, to de-couple and isolate our speakers and turntables (and many also their amps), from this shelf/stand/floor/plinth.
If you look at the transmission of various frequencies through the tiny contact points of 'spikes' or through various decoupling materials used as isolating bases, it becomes apparent that this differs enormously from that of the contact made by the turntable in its traditional plinth.

I have heard that Ralph's famous amplifiers do in fact sound better when mounted in a Panzerholtz plinth :-)

I think you will find that the mounting for the platter and the tower for the arm will sound their best when coupled as tightly to the non-resonant platform upon which the resulting turntable is being constructed.

Pure supposition and theory with no proof or evidence offered?
This is not worthy of you Ralph.

We 'Nuders' and 'Armboard Isolators' are reporting our practical experiences.
It is slightly galling to be told that 'theoretically', in someone's unproven opinion our experiences are invalid?

Dear Halcro: You are IMHO spot-on in your last two posts.

On the first " plinths "+ subject we need to think " too " that not only the floor works as a plinth but the Earth's nucleus too!!!!

In the other side a debate exist only because the ones that are argue and argue and argue does not try yet the whole " naked project ".
At least we advocates to the naked project have targets like: improve the quality performance and through that project we taked a step forward in that direction and we all are enjoying the music better than ever through that project when the people that are argue are enjoying almost nothing because IMHO no one can enjoy that kind of " words/bla bla ".

So what they have on hand?, almost nothing to argue but theory that can't prove through real experiences.

In the other side day by day are growing up the people number that are testing the naked project and till today everyone of them are satisfied with this alternative against the other one.

Welcome Banquo363!.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Dear Dgob – Looking forward to your impressions of how the sound changes when you isolate the armboard. I did not see any value myself in attaching an armboard to a surface containing a motor and vibrations so I went directly to an isolated armboard. If the improvement that you noted was based on this alone - I can’t imagine how much better? your next step will bring. It also speaks volumes to the top end component that an sp10 is.
I really believe the SP10 engineers didn’t realize how good they made it. Think about it – they didn’t know what type of structure alias plinth - the broadcast studios were going to put them in - so they made them “bullet proof” to work great without a plinth anywhere. They had to - they wouldn’t have become the standard worldwide if this was not the case. Conventional wisdom said put it in a plinth so they made plinths for it as well to sell. This is the same reason I started with a plinth - go with the flow. It took a lot of courage Raul to keep up the front on your side. Henry it was your thread with the pictures that got me going. Kudos to both of you. I am listening tonight and I can’t believe the sound.

I have a seasonal summer cottage in the woods. This whole thing is starting to remind me of catching mice except in a good way here. For every mouse that you catch there are ten-fold and more lurking somewhere else in the structure. As we speak there are probably “x00’s” maybe "x000's" of folks trying this out as Raul has referenced. If the thought of this is forcing some folks to cringe and hide or talks words around it so be it. My SP10 and ET arm hasn’t fallen over yet. Hearing is believing as Dgob said. Something tells me they are all trying or planning on trying it too really soon - they just are not saying anything ………yet :) This is just too big a deal for us turntable people to ignore or talk words to.

Cheers Chris