A Copernican View of the Turntable System


Once again this site rejects my long posting so I need to post it via this link to my 'Systems' page
HERE
128x128halcro
Halcro,
A couple of thoughts...

I think we will all agree that just because the 'theory' is not borne out in 'results" does not mean the theory is wrong. In many cases, the 'not-as-good-in-theory' concept is far better implemented than the theoretically-correct. My Micro Seiki belt drive sounds far better than my Technics SL1200 but my Exclusive P3 sounds better than a Rega P3.

I too am not 'religious' about audio. Personally, I think several of the arm pods developed here are probably capable of permitting excellent sound (arm/cart/implementation permitting). Reading this thread has given me some ideas. And it makes me want to have a crack at something similar too. A 10-20kg arm pod is a prodigious weight, and in practice, that kind of weight will couple the pod and therefore the arm bearing to the surface below the arm pod. Pods are not necessarily like galleons on a stormy sea in practice. That said, if I implement pods, I will seek to couple the pod and the motor to a single rigid surface, and then isolate that rigid substructure. Doing so will get me somewhat close to Jonathan's concept.

Many of us, myself included, are firmly in the camp of improving our systems any way we can. That necessarily requires experimentation. And in many cases experimentation is assisted by forming a hypothesis, which for practical purposes, until proven, is really all a theory is. In many cases, there are practical obstacles to going down the road of perfect theory. Your point about MCs vs MMs is an easy case in point. The theory that MCs are intrinsically better than MMs requires that the pre-pre stage (head amp or step up transformer) be capable of not limiting the effective performance of the MC. I think in practice that aspect limits the performance many get from their LOMCs.

As to your points on air-borne sound transmission and its effect on turntables... All I can say is that if you have never noticed it, you have been extremely lucky, or extremely good, in your room set-up. I have not been either and have heard the effects. Even when my P3 is well away from my speakers, listening with top up or top down is different. If you have an ADC, testing the effects of sound transmission on analog playback, and of the effect of greater volume, is relatively easy.

In any case, I applaud your efforts at experimentation thus far. It really is all about living with and enjoying the result.
Ct0517,

It would seem that our experiences defy the theory. As a certain phiilosopher once said, in that case, the theory needs revision/refinement.

An old Chinese saying: black cat or white cat, the right cat catches the mouse!
Hi T_bone,
I realise that you, and many others are perhaps trying to rationalize what we 'arm-pod' folk report, against what your instincts and learnings tell you and all I can really say is that until one actually tries a well developed 'pod'.......it's all just 'words'.
But I'm looking forward to your own experiments :^)

Regarding your problems with 'feedback' and my lack of any discernible angst in that region.......I must say that I have always had my turntables mounted on a shelf cantilevered from a solid masonry wall.
The fact that you state that..."even when my P3 is well away from my speakers"....... leads me to suspect that it is structure-borne feedback you are experiencing rather than air-borne?
Could you perhaps describe how your P3 is supported?
T_bone. How could anyone of impecable taste listen to their turntable with the lid down :-)
Even with my lp12 music sounds much better with the lid up, or better still off. Never even thought of playing the exclusive P3 with the lid down.
But seriously, a great thread that makes cd /digital even more boring
T_bone,
Re-reading your post above.......
That said, if I implement pods, I will seek to couple the pod and the motor to a single rigid surface, and then isolate that rigid substructure.
I believe that I have done just that by coupling (or de-coupling) the motor and pods to the very same 32mm laminated (stressed-skin) rigid shelf structure which is isolated from the floor and walls by cantilevered metal brackets.
Your statement and that of Jonathan's are not quite the same?