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Is 60dB gain enough for Kleos?

At age 52, after years of technological philandering, I am once again courting my old vinyl flame. I just bought a VPI Classic 3 because it looks like it was built in the fifties, like me. Now I am obsessing over the selection of cartridge and phono-amp. Every man needs his irrational, unsubstantiated religious beliefs, and mine include vacuum tubes (very fifties-ish) and a transformerless signal path.

So let's say that for the moment I am enamored with the Fosgate Signature phono-amp, which having a 60dB gain without any input transformer. Now I have read that this works best with a high-output MC in the 0.8 to 1.0 mV range.

Here's the rub ... I am very intrigued by the Lyra Kleos, my fascination with which is due in no small part to the musings in these pages of J Carr himself. Alas, the Kleos has an output of only 0.5 mV. So I seek the advice of those who might have pertinent experience!

Dave
david_pully
bifwynne
2,206 posts
 
What Al says makes sense. My phono pre is an ARC PH-7 which has 57.5 db of gain. The noise and hum stat is 70db. My line-stage is an ARC Ref-5 which has 12 db of gain if the XLR output is used, which it is in my case. The noise and hum stat is 109db. So total gain is almost 70db.

ARC advised me that I should not use a cartridge that produces less than .5mV of gain, and more would be better. So far, I have used high output MC and MM cartridges that produce more than 2mV so I can't personally vouch that .5mV is ok, but what I can say is that what Al says is consistent with the advice ARC gave me.

FWIW
theo's avatar
theo
2,681 posts
 
I am using my Kleos with a Linn Linto at 64db and it works fine. Could it have a little more gain? Yes, but I feel it is a good match, I just boost the volume a little more than I do for other sources, but I am never lacking. It is nice and quiet.
david_pully OP
29 posts
 
Theo, are you using the Linto without a step-up transformer? If so, that is a good testimony indeed. I trust you hear no compromise of dynamics?
almarg's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
almarg
9,670 posts
 
I would be cautious extrapolating from experience with the Linto. In addition to the fact that it is solid state, as indicated in its manual it is a very unusual design in that it drives the input signals directly into the amplifying transistors, with no loading network (the intent being to reduce noise); and it has an unusually high input capacitance of 4700pf (which may further reduce noise). The Fosgate differs in all of those respects, and also provides 4db less gain.

Regards,
-- Al
david_pully OP
29 posts
 
Regarding downstream compatibility, I will at first be feeding output of the phono amp into a Marantz AV7005 pre/pro. I could not find a line stage gain spec for this unit. Input sensitivity is claimed to be 200 mV / 47k-Ohm and pre-out is 1.2 V unbalanced, 2.4 V balanced … I don’t know how to translate that into gain. I’ll be using the balanced output into a Parasound Halo A51, sensitivity = 1 V for 28.28 V. Down the road, barring insolvency, I’ll insert a nice preamp with a threatre bypass mode into the stream, probably a Parasound JC-2 (gain 14dB) or a Rogue Audio Athena (gain 15dB balanced.)
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