Turntable advice-thorens questions

I beg to differ on the support in regards to the VPI HW 19 MK 1 through MK IV turntables. As a owner of a MK IV, I have always received great support on this table when the need has come about. My last support for this table was about 3 months ago and Harry was most helpful. If things have changed in the interim 90 days then thats news to me. If indeed support is no longer there does not raise a problem as this is one of the most rugged and durable turntables that were produced and is dirt simple in its design. While its true that not all parts of the past are available on the MKIV, Harry has kept supplying upgrades from time to time. I no longer have a MKI, MKII or MKIII VPI so I cannot comment on that. However my interest is now peaked and phone call to Harry on Tuesday is indeed forthcoming. Gad I've know him for well over 25 years now.

However a word of caution on the new Thorens products, They aren't your Daddy's Thorens. Now owned by Project which makes tirntables uner their own name as well as Music Hall, Thorens and probably some others. The current Thorens product is very sad commentary on what was once a very proud name in analog playback. I would avoid any new Thorens product as nothing more or less than rebadged Project turntables.

Agreed the new Thorens are just marketing and fluff - new company riding an old name, nothing worth buying. But I would take any well done vintage Td125 or Td124 (or LP12) over the blah VPI HW19. VPI's in my experience are showy commercial main stream hi-end over hyped and not one bit musical in the least - waaaayy over rated shoddy built (mostly) tables. Its one of those always well reviewed comm. mfg. seen all over the mags but you know its just for people who dont know any better so they buy mainly based on mag reviews, rec. component lists and press. They kinda remind me of like Def. Tech speakers or the like, always great reviews and shiny mag. ads but in reality don't sound good and much better available out there. ymmv.

Jeremy, regrettably, I can't share your take on VPIs. I own the Classic (w/ Classic 3 arm), The da*n thing is built like a tank. Put treads, a 125mm cannon on it and voila, it's an Abrams main battle tank.

The main platter weighs 18 lbs and the motor is firmly attached to the plinth. No vibrations that I can detect. Customer support is 120%.

My problem is with the design of the unstabilized uni-pivot arm. It's a bitch to set up (mostly azimuth) and a bitch to get some cartridges to work. See my threads on this issue. HOWEVER, once set up is done and once you get a cartridge that works, the da*n thing sings. And, since I've screwed around with the set up so much now, I can do it in my sleep.

One day, I may try slapping on a used Graham arm to see what happens. But that's tomorrow's project. IMHO FWIW!

The Classic might be the best sounding VPI ever made and might even be the best honestly built they've made too, especially for the money. But, we were not talking about the Classic which has only been around a short while anyway. Long history of that commercial hifi company making not so well built and very mediocre sounding tables. More power to them for selling so many of these things, after all people are in business to sell and make a profit but again imo and ime VPI are fair to mediocre at best all the way around. For musicality I'd take a restored and plinthed TD125 or restored LP12 over 98% of the tables VPi has ever made, regardless of how heavy the darn platters are. ymmv