Vintage DD turntables. Are we living dangerously?

Lewm: "The earlier Denons with induction motors: did they employ servo feedback as well? It is hard to imagine how that would work well. Did DP6000 use induction motor?"

The one I'm know for sure uses induction motor was a DP-755, an old table without quartz lock that I used to own and saw the gut myself. In the Amp8 website there's no picture of the DP-6000 motor but there's a similar looking DP-3000 that uses an induction motor. I believe all the 4 digit series tables have induction motor and they all use a tapehead reader for servo. The later 2 digit series such as DP-75, DP-80, etc... went back to motor with magnet but retained the tapehead servo system.

Halcro: "HiHo, Your interest in the Victor motors seem to have been ignited by your experiences with the TT-71.....is that correct?"

Long story. I can say it is one of the tables that got me interested in JVC products and DD genre again. Technics SP10Mk2 was my table for the longest time, over 10 years before the DD revival. Always got laughed at by my audiophile friends for not using an "audiophile approved" table a la Linn. But I ignored the noise. Then there was a period I didn't work so I had all the free time to experiment. For whatever reason I didn't use the SP10 and started exploring belt drive and got into the Empire 208, still an excellent table. I just missed the conciseness of the DD and low noise so I decided to give DD another try. I bought a bunch of DD tables for experiment, TT71 was one of them, also included models from brands like Pioneer, Denon, Kenwood, Sony, Technics, JVC, etc... Up to that point I hadn't encountered any table with coreless motor and then one day I got to listen to a dirt cheap Pioneer PL-300 and it had a smooth quality that reminds me of belt drive so I gutted it out and discovered it had a coreless motor. Ever since I started looking for tables with coreless motor and they always have that smoothness I crave for. There are some non coreless exceptions, of course, such as Sony PS-8750 and Denon DP-60. You can call this smooth quality euphony or distortion or whatever. All I know it has a sound I enjoy -- neutral or not, I couldn't care less. It was then I relistened to the Technics models, SP10Mk2, SP25, SP15, SL12000mk2, SLM3, SLM2, etc.... none satisfied me. (Although the sleeper in Technics is really the SP15.) When I started with the SP10mk2 -- college days? -- I was deeply into punk rock and the bass dynamic and tightness is perfect for that musical genre. Playing The Clash's "Police and Thieves"was great way to show off the Technics. But as my musical taste expanded, it no longer could satisfy me in other music, that often criticized sterile sound is true for me. Technics does not represent the best of DD tables, there are many options. It's unfortunate many people dismissed the DD genre just because they didn't like the Technics without thinking there are at least half dozen worthy brands out there.You just have to be open-minded about it. So, that's the gist of it.

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Some of the quoted specs Timeltel provided were from Pioneer P3 and P10 and had nothing to do with JVC. Wrong links!

It appears the prose was written using Google Translate program with very awkward phrases.

Happy Listening,

Lewm,
The speed problems on my TT-101 were not caused by the Power Switch.
The Power Switch began playing up (not turning OFF) about 6 months ago....and that's when I discovered the benefits of leaving the Victor 'powered up' 24/7.
Surprisingly....when I began doing that (out of necessity).....the switch began working again but switching it OFF.....produced the fault again.
That's when I wrote about the benefits of 24/7 Power for solid state DD turntables.
My Tech replaced the switch which is activated by a gear drive which advances one click at every press of the POWER switch......however in doing so....a small glitch appeared whereby when the power switch is activated now.....the platter starts spinning immediately whereas previously one needed to press either the 33 or 45 to start the platter.
As I now keep the unit powered 'ON' 24/7....this is not an issue for me.
Another glitch since the repair is the brake function which you mentioned.
Previously when the 'STOP' button was pressed...the platter instantly stopped due to the reverse current in the drive circuit....and then reverse spun for a second before stopping. This reverse spin was due to my removal of the stock heavy rubber platter mat which I have substituted with the lightweight Victor pigskin.
Now however, when the 'STOP' button is pressed.....the platter instantly stops but reverse spins for a few seconds longer than it previously did.
I don't know whether to have this and the Power Switch issue looked into at the end of my 3 month Warranty period?

The reason I finally had to take the TT-101 to the Tech was that the digital speed read-out began indicating widely varying speeds at both 33.33 and 45 rpm.
Since the caps and soldering replacement.....this appears to be solved.

Hiho et el
I feel that I need to put my two cents worth in on the subject of cored and cordless motors. Some one has to act as a champion for the Technics line. I should also state that I have a commercial interest in the subject, so feel free to discount entirely what I am about to say....
My take on the subject is not between cordless and cored but high torque relative to the platters moment of inertia and low torque relative to same, coupled with the feedback design.
In other words the motors grip on the platter. It's "responsiveness". The Kenwood and JVCs live in the low responsiveness camp. The technics SP 10 range are firmly in the high responsiveness camp.

The SP 10 range in standard from is noisy, not in the conventional sense but noise which is a function of the music being played. There is also a tension, stress if you will, to the presentation and a greyness that over time is downright irritating.
But these faults are not intrinsic in their design, rather it is in their build. These are two completely different things.
I want drive and punch when I am listening to popular music but I want finesse and nuance when I am listening to my favourite genire, baroque.
I listen to music to connect and feel an emotional response. To feel the joy of discovery when the violinist bends the note just..so.
I want it all.

I could not live with a standard SP10 MK 2 or 3. I don't have to, but I very happily live with my worked SP10 Mk 3.

Cheers.

Regards, Lewm: Please re-read. Prominent mention of servo systems incorporated in the discussed JVC TTs. Also an acknowledgment that a correction was made to a hurried and unsupported comment. Would you kindly put your dog back under the porch?

Hiho: It's good to see that you actually viewed the Pio. links. The mention of a coreless drive in each of those links relating to the Exclusive series TTs should answer an earlier question. Their inclusion was intentional.

As to the specs given, it would seem likely that both manufacturers measured at least ONE unit that spec'ed as quoted. It would be interesting if anyone could provide contradictory figures.

Ya'll carry on &

Peace.

Richardkrebs, I agree with you on many points especially about torque. And I'm glad that you are able to enjoy a modified version of the Technics. I just wanted to add that the higher torque the higher cogging and it's a challenge to increase one without increasing the other. Your unit seems to overcome the sound that includes "a tension, stress if you will, to the presentation and a greyness that over time is downright irritating." Well said! I guess coreless motor offers a good compromise for me. Does that make me belong in the "low responsiveness camp"? Can I bring some Clash records for a spin? :)

I'm sorry that I sounded rather negative on the Technics line. I actually have fond memory of the SP10mk2 and, who knows, might even revisit it one day.


Happy listening!