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Using Test LP - curious observations

I've been tremendously enjoying my Lyra Delos with the Classic for about 1.5 yrs now, and just recently remembered I had the Hi-Fi News Analogue Test LP and got the urge to test my setup.
Here are some of my observations that came as a surprise to me:
1) Anti-skate (Bands 6,7,8,9 on side one) - the cartridge "passed" the test on Band 6 without any anti-skate, but there was audible buzzing coming from the right channel at higher amplitudes. Applying anti-skate made NO difference whatsoever to the results, whether on setting 1, 2 or 3 (most anti-skate). I prefer the sound without anti-skate so this only seemed to confirm that applying anti-skate arguably does nothing to improve the sound and likely makes it worse. It also seems to shed some light on why Harry doesn't like anti-skate.
2) Azimuth (Band 5 on side two) - My preamp has a mono switch so this seemed pretty straightforward. According to the instructions, there should be minimal (if any) mono output if the cartridge was aligned perfectly. Well, there was certainly some output, which immediately worried me, but what really left me scratching my head was the fact that no adjustment appeared to correct it, or make a significant difference. I use the Soundsmith's Counter Intuitive to fine-adjust VTF and azimuth, and after about 2 hours of a wide range of adjustments in azimuth through the CI, it was virtually impossible to determine the optimal azimuth setting, i.e., the output seemed consistently the same regardless of adjustments.

Please free to comment, share your experiences or explain my curious results. Or are they not curious?
actusreus
moonglum
619 posts
 
Dear Doug,
Thank you for your insights, your conclusions are highly plausible. At the risk of stating the obvious you will no doubt have seen cantilevers bent like a bow due to skating force (not referring to my current rig here, but past experiences BTW :)
This deformation to me suggests some stressing of the suspension. If a corrective force, albeit applied at the pivot end of the arm, renders the cantilever behaviour as straight and true as an arrow in the groove, then is it conceivable that the suspension could be LESS stressed than allowing skating force to otherwise act unhindered?

Would it be fair to say that if the cantilever looks good it is good, or is this misleading...?
Best regards...
dougdeacon
3,338 posts
 
Moonglum,

Good question:
...you will no doubt have seen cantilevers bent like a bow due to skating force
Actually, I have never seen a cantilever bent/angled due to SKATING forces and I doubt anyone else has either. Skating forces pull the stylus inward. Providing that nothing resists the inward movement of the arm, no particular stress is placed on the cantilever. Everything just follows along and no deformation occurs.

OTOH, I have seen cantilevers bent/angled from excessive ANTI-skating forces.

If an unweighted cantilever is bent/aimed INWARD then excessive A/S or defective/sticky tonearm bearings should be investigated as possible culprits. Since these both present resistance to inward tonearm movement they may deform the suspension. (Manufacturing defects or user abuse are also possibilities of course.)

If an unweighted cantilever is bent/aimed OUTWARD then a manufacturing defect or user abuse is highly likely. Skating forces, anti-skating forces or sticky tonearm bearings would not cause this.
actusreus OP
733 posts
 
Doug,
You're right on the money, as usual. That's precisely what I would describe: apparent benefit only to be ultimately offset by detriment to the overall sound. To answer my own question regarding why I might prefer the sound without anti-skate, I'd like to quote a post by Stringreen from a thread discussing anti-skate that I think succinctly summarized the issue:

"The force that one corrects with anti-skate is constantly changing with distance the cartridge is from the spindle, the angle of the cartridge relative to the groove, the loudness of that particular area of the record, the lightly or heavily scoring of that particular area of the record, and I'm sure other factors as well. There are those that also say that anti-skate mechanisms themselves can adversly affect tonearm performance, and that they should be disabled."

Amen.
moonglum
619 posts
 
Happy New Year Doug....you've clearly given this subject some thought. What, in your opinion, is the reason why turntables Nos 1-5 differ from No.6?
Cheers,
siranthony
16 posts
 
Dougdeacon,
Thanks for your input. I am using an Origin Live Encounter mk2 (the dual pivot version). I am using the VPI headshell weight. I used the mint protractor to align the cart. I try to use as little VTF as possible and use antiskate to eliminate distortion in one channel. I'm not sure how many hours my Yatra has but I doubt it has 300 hours yet. I'm very happy with the this cart right now. It does have the sense of space that ZYX is known for. I just bought a Delos and I am listening to the Yatra more. To be fair I haven't set the Delos up on the new arm yet.
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