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Optimizing TNT, Triplanar, Transfiguration Temper

I'm writing because of a combination of frustration and potential in my turntable set-up. I have never gotten the sound from the system that I expected, but feel that I am beginning to glimpse the potential of achieving it. I have made some changes recently that have led to more changes that have brought me closer to what I have heard from other systems with similar components. I am hoping someone can guide me toward finally obtaining the basic qualities that I'm looking for and I can fine-tune from there.
What I have heard before from lesser components and am not getting is the sound of the transients jumping off the record. I thought this problem was merely from the characteristics of the Transfiguration Temper Supreme, but with some modifications of the table I am beginning to hear it and wanted to see if I could bring it out further.
Let me back-track and tell you my components and what modifications I have made so far. I am running a VPI TNT upgraded to 4 (w/ the rectangle cutout for the motor), with the original motor and just added an SDS (which made the biggest improvement), a Wheaton Triplanar tonearm upgraded to VI, and a Transfiguration Temper Supreme cartridge.
When I upgraded to the SDS, the timing and solidity of the sound improved dramatically. I then found that using a single belt directly from the motor to the table actually outperformed the three-pully design originally designed for the table, perhaps with some trade-offs, i.e. voices sound clearer and better-defined, but piano may have a little less air and realism.
Finally, the table sits behind the speakers, particularly the left speaker. Moving the speaker forward a few inches seemed to significantly clean up the sound, so vibrations from the back of the (B & W 803) speaker may be muddying the water. My other components are Spectral DMC-20 and DMA-180 and MIT/Spectral reference cables.
Like I said, I am glimpsing the potential of this setup, and the music is starting to clean up and jump off the record, but it's just not quite there. I feel like I'm missing something simple and would like advice before making a lot of changes. I think I've set the cartridge up properly with regard to alignment, azimuth, VTA and no anti-skate. I have not removed the damping trough yet, and that is the next thing I was thinking to try. I am planning to try to further isolate the table from the speakers - the cable lengths prevent me from totally moving the preamp and turntable. I was also considering using different belts or string/dental floss etc. Another possibility is investing in a single-motor flywheel, which also would not use the three pulleys included with the TNT turntable. But, I feel that there is something simple and straightforward with the front-end that I am missing. Any advice?
128x128ctlphd
dougdeacon
3,338 posts
 
Ctlphd,

Sorry to hear about the new preamp/amp problem. If it ain't one thing...

Your sonic description of missing jump and snap made excessive VTF an easy guess, glad that helped. Those O-rings do fail after a while. I've replaced mine a couple of times.
I had always been told to use near the max tracking force tolerated.
That's appropriate advice for neophytes, who often use insufficient VTF in a mis-guided attempt to reduce friction. Too often, their stylus chatters around in the groove, doing 1,000X more damage than an extra gram of downforce ever could. Playing near the max prevents the worst of all disasters, destroying one's vinyl, but it also prevents hearing the most that a good cartridge can give.

A few years ago Raul was visiting us. We played LP's all afternoon. After a 1-2 hour dinner break we started up again and the music was decidedly duller: no weight, no oomph. I walked over to the Triplanar and slid an O-ring toward the counterweight by no more than the thickness of the O-ring itself.

BANG! All the life came back. Even Raul was surprised that such a tiny change made such a big difference. My .01g digital scale can't even measure the change from that small an adjustment.

This particular VTF adjustment was only needed because of the dinner break, which had allowed the cartridge to cool down and the suspension to stiffen. A hair more downforce was needed to optimize it. As we advance to higher levels of equipment the performance we demand increases, naturally. So does the care we must take to achieve it.

Hope the other thing works out.
ctlphd's avatar
ctlphd OP
42 posts
 
Ptmconsulting, you said for cartridge loading:
I load mine at 220 or 470,depending... higher values produce a more open tonality but sometimes this can be a bit too sharp with some recordings so I tone down to 220 for those.
I thought you were supposed to try to match the impedences for loading. Temper's impedence is listed as 7 ohms, and my Spectral preamp allows for 10, 30, 100... I have tried others, but thought 30 was a good compromise, as 10 dropped the output significantly but sounded more open and airy. 30 dropped the output much less, and higher than that seemed to be a little brighter and less airy. Maybe I was thinking about that wrong and I was actually damping the cartridge too much. I will try going up again (once I get my preamp back), but what is your (and others) opinion on this? Also, do you think a separate phono preamp is warrented? The Spectral has a separate dedicated card as an addition for this.
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,834 posts
 
Ctlphd, cartridge loading is indirectly related to the impedance of the cartridge. If you have a low output MC, the loading has to do with the inductance of the cartridge and the capacitance of the cable, and whether or not your preamp is sensitive to RF.

IOW, the loading does not do anything at audio frequencies. It affects radio frequencies instead. The inductance of the cartridge and the capacitance of the cable form a tuned RF circuit. The resistive load is used to reduce the effectiveness (Q) of this circuit. Once set to the right value, there will no longer be any bursts of RF energy applied to the input of the phono section.

A typical loading value BTW, will be about 10x the impedance of the cartridge, but this should only be considered a starting point.

Now if the phono section does not care about RF, you will hear hardly any difference with loading other than volume.

From what I have seen here it would be a very good idea to get more distance between the speaker and 'table. I would expect the Spectral to allow for some fairly long cables without too much trouble.
ptmconsulting
1,000 posts
 
I was always told to start at the high end (e.g. 44k unloaded) and work my way down in values (loaded) until things snap into place. I found this balance to be between 220 and 470 for me (I have a switch on my Hagerman Piccolo step up that allows me to choose between several values easily). A loading of 30 would certainly make your transients sound dulled.
ctlphd's avatar
ctlphd OP
42 posts
 
Since the preamp only seems to be acting up when it gets hot, and Spectral is going on holiday until the beginning of the year, I decided to go ahead and try a couple of things. I changed the cartridge load to 100 Ohms, which opened up the sound and increased the gain, as well as improving transients and details. I didn't go up higher, as the next step is 800 Ohms, which seems to high given previous comments.
Next, I replaced the stock rubber belt with silk thread. This really reduced the noise floor and provided even more details. I'm not sure of the optimal distance or tension to have on the thread, so input would be appreciated.
After these two changes, the sound still lacked a little in the dynamics, so I backed off slightly in the VTF. This provided significant improvement. I have ordered an Audio Additives digital stylus force guage to better estimate this force, but I plan to fine tune it by ear.
Finally, with all these changes, small changes make bigger differences, so I'm going to have to fine tune VTA, azimuth, and reassess whether or not to use anti-skate or remove the whole thing along with the damping trough.
With regard to longer cables and hence getting the table away from the speakers, the problem is not whether the Spectral will handle it (it has the possibility of using balanced cables as well), but the expense of reference MIT cables, which Spectral requires due to its ultra-wide bandwidth. I am also still considering altering the suspension, but I need to do these things step-by-step.
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