Where should I go next? Where are my weak links?

Dear Iramirez: Just imagine a well designed amp that you like its quality performance level and that at the same time was/is accurate/neutral to help listen what is in the recording with low low colorations and distortions.

I think that till you or any one else can have that experiences you or any one else can't even imagine or dream the pleasure and enjoy level all we can achieve through an audio system hering music.

My take is that is better try ( at least try. ) to grow up than stay in the deep " hole " majority of us are for so many years.

I'm only saying: try, learn and move on.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Thanks Al for clearing up Raul's misunderstanding in this matter.

Dear Al: I'm not talking about overall speaker behavior but about a mistmatch between the Manley and the Zu due to the Manley " behavior " that due to the amplifier characteristics in true works more like an equalizer with gain that as an amplifier with the right performance to handle the Zu speakers this is the main subject.

++++ " would mean that its design may anticipate and compensate for those impedance interactions " ++++

I hope not because that means more signal manipulation that means signal further degradation.

Now, I can't see clear which your point. Are you trying to say that the Manley is a right amp for those speakers? or are you trying to diminish the impedance mistmatch between Manley and Zu? which your point?

As I posted : why any one of us could try to diminsh or ignore the critical importance that have a matching or un-matching amplifier/speaker combination on system quality level performance when any one of us take care matching cartridge impedance with phono load impedance or tonearm/cartridge match combination to achieve better quality performance level?

which the difference when maybe the speaker/amplifier impedance matching can be more critical and sensitive than the others?, makes no sense to me.

Trying to match electrical impedances between any other audio links but the amplifier/speakers always is important an almost all of us take care about: I repeat, which the difference with the amplifier/speaker impedanmce matching? why almost all do not care about? which is the explanation behind this audiophile behavior other than ignorance?

Which your take ?, I ask you because you know what we are talking about and I can't see you agree with that critical Ohm's Law importance. Again: why diminish it?

regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Hi Iramirez - I understand that a whole lot of audiophiles like subs, and I am sure the one you mention is a good one. I do not dispute that.

My point about subs is that if we are talking about unamplified, acoustically produced music, they are simply not necessary. With the exception of perhaps the very lowest organ pipes, and maybe a very few other cases, acoustically produced music simply doesn't go down to the frequencies that would require a sub.

In fact, subs always make acoustically produced music sound a little unnatural. Yes, I make that an absolute statement. I have heard a great many of them, in audio stores and at audio shows, and in people's home systems. In every single case, unamplified acoustically produced music sounded better (meaning in this case more life-like, or real) with the sub turned off. I have even convinced a couple of speaker designers at audio shows of this, using different orchestral and chamber music recordings. In fact, one of my favorite activities at audio shows is to find a salesman hawking some system or other and ranting about how great his subs are, and then putting on a recording of acoustic music and asking him to play it with the subs on, and then off. The latter always sounds better, in the unanimous opinion of everyone in the room, sometimes shockingly so. Honestly, this test has never failed yet.

Now I hasten to add that if we are talking electronically produced music, this is not always the case. Sometimes subs can help enhance that, though as others have said they are always difficult to integrate properly, even when one knows what they are doing. And of course, most audiophiles do listen to a great deal of electronically produced music.

I think nowadays that even acoustic instruments are so amplified electronically as a matter of course in jazz clubs, and even symphonic pops concerts, that many people, including audiophiles, have simply become accustomed to this sound, and expect to hear it, even though it is not natural. Some day when I buy a really good home theater system for movies and TV, it will most definitely have a sub. But it will be separate from my audio system, and never the twain shall meet.

02-26-12: Rauliruegas
Now, I can't see clear which your point. Are you trying to say that the Manley is a right amp for those speakers? or are you trying to diminish the impedance mistmatch between Manley and Zu? which your point?

... Trying to match electrical impedances between any other audio links but the amplifier/speakers always is important an almost all of us take care about: I repeat, which the difference with the amplifier/speaker impedanmce matching? why almost all do not care about? which is the explanation behind this audiophile behavior other than ignorance?

Hi Raul,

I'm not saying that the match is unimportant. Basically what I am saying is that it seems plausible to me that the speaker could be designed to sound its best when driven by a tube amp having significant output impedance, and it may not sound its best when driven by a solid state amp having near zero output impedance.

Speakers having relatively high sensitivity are often designed that way. See Atmasphere's paradigm paper for further background on that.

I certainly agree with you that using an amplifier having a 2 ohm output impedance with this speaker will result in a somewhat different frequency response than using a solid state amplifier having near zero output impedance, as the calculations in my previous post indicated. However, that does not necessarily mean that the frequency response when driven by the solid state amplifier is "better" or more neutral or more accurate, either subjectively or objectively.

The bottom line, putting aside subjective preferences, is what kind of amplifier the speaker was designed and intended to be used with. Some speakers are clearly designed to be used with solid state amplifiers, others are clearly designed to be used with tube amplifiers, and many others straddle the fence.

The likelihood that the Essence is designed to provide good results when used with a tube amplifier is given plausibility by the upwardly shelved top octave that I referred to (that measurement presumably having been taken with a solid state signal source), which will almost exactly cancel the top octave rolloff resulting from the interaction between the speaker impedance and the 2 ohm amplifier impedance. It is also given plausibility by the good sonic results that have been described by the OP and by the Stereophile reviewers, and by the fact that a lot of people successfully use high sensitivity speakers such as the Zu's with tube amps.

Regards,
-- Al