2. analog
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Is a vinyl rig only worth it for oldies?

I have always been curious about vinyl and its touted superiority over digital, so I decided to try it for myself. Over the course of the past several years I bought a few turntables, phono stages, and a bunch of new albums. They sounded fine I thought, but didn't stomp all over digital like some would tend to believe.

It wasn't until I popped on some old disk that I picked up used from a garage sale somewhere that I heard what vinyl was really about: it was the smoothest, most organic, and 3d sound that ever came out of my speakers. I had never heard anything quite like it. All of the digital I had, no matter how high the resolution, did not really come close to approaching that type of sound.

Out of the handful of albums I have from the 70s-80s, most of them have this type of sound. Problem is, most of my music and preferences are new releases (not necessarily in an audiophile genre) or stuff from the past decade and these albums sounded like music from a CD player but with the added noise, pops, clicks, higher price, and inconveniences inherent with vinyl. Of all the new albums I bought recently, only two sounded like they were mastered in the analog domain.

It seems that almost anything released after the 2000's (except audiophile reissues) sounded like music from a CD player of some sort, only worse due to the added noise making the CD version superior. I have experienced this on a variety of turntables, and this was even true in a friend's setup with a high end TT/cart.

So my question is, is vinyl only good for older pre-80s music when mastering was still analog and not all digital?
solman989
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tdaudio
201 posts
 
Mapman, I got back into vinyl 9 years ago because I feared that high res digital would evolve slowly. Which it has and not for technology reasons. Big record companies drag their feet because as you know they are afraid of unauthorized copies and high res digital makes that easier. I believe that is one reason why redbook CD is a compromised format.

There is a lot of stuff I can buy now on vinyl that is not available via high res digital. Plus all the vinyl you can find used. 192k/24bit recordings are expensive and rare. I don't know what the sales figures for high res digital (IMO that would have to be at least 96k/24bit) are but I think it is even more of a nich market than vinyl. Honestly, if anyone knows please tell.

Its kind of useless to just talk about vinyl vs digital with out breaking it down. Getting into vinyl from scratch will cost some money which sucks since I think that keeps people out of it. But you don't have to be rich to put together a TT rig that will consistantly beat red book CD. But it will take money and time to get the most out of vinyl. And if you are determined a high level TT set up will distance itself from CD.

Going forward, there is no doubt that digital will surpass vinyl LP. But it will take a major shift on the powers selling music for that to happen. If that happened and there was a standard for 192k/24bit or higher then that would be a sea change IMO. IF you could buy that kind of quality at current CD prices it would all but kill the vinyl market. Its possible now but why does it not happen?

TD
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rauliruegas
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Dear Peterayer: Yes, I'm still on that tonearm design, in fact is almost finished.

As I posted I'm in love with LPs but that fact does not means that I recognize the digital superiority and that I like digital medium too.
Truer to the recording is the name of the game and in this regards digital is way way nearer than analog.

What I want to know is why when the LPs/analog is so heavely faulty I like it so much as you like it too.

I'm not married with any hardware/software: I'm married with the music!!!!.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
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tdaudio
201 posts
 
Raul, if you recognize the "digital superiority" why not focus on a digital prouduct?

I must say that want to be manufactures make some of the most interesting posts on audiogon. Its always a position of the expert but yet there is usually little to show as a sucessful product.

I am not rooting against you, I welcome new options.

Just waiting for some one who talks the talk to do the walk.

Enjoy the music.

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rauliruegas
13,050 posts
 
Dear Taudio: I'm not a digital expert/designer but fortunatelly I have the electronics that have the capacity to shows the best of LP/analog and the best of digital where I " discovery " that superiority. Btw, , one of those electronic items ( PhonoLinePreamplifier. ) is our self design/build and there are a few music lover friends that own it and that can attest about its quality performance: unique for say the least. You can read about on my virtual system.

I think, as I posted, that for really " fall in count " that digital superiority we not only have to be unbiased to any alternative other than MUSIC but to own the right resolution audio system that can have the capacity to shows the digital reality.
As I posted IMHO the today digital status supersede our systems capacity. The source is a lot better than some of our each one audio systems.

IMHO I think that designers have to improve their designs thinking on what digital has to offer and not only on the " arcaic " LPs.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
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tdaudio
201 posts
 
Rual, I want to be clear, when you say digital is better what digital are you talking about, CD? SACD? 96K/24? 192K/24bit? This is in the interest of learning.

And your "electronics that have the capacity to shows the best of LP/analog the best of digital where I "discovery" that superiority" again could you be more specific about what digital format and even give some examples of the music.

By electronics I assume you mean your entire system. Its interesting to learn about your do it your self phono preamp. Congratulations on building one. I assume you tried to sell this product but no market developed? I think that making a buck selling audio products would be a very hard thing to do.

But as a audio hobbiest I am suppose to believe that your mystery phono pre amp that never found a real market is the standard for sweeping statements?

And since you brought up the "capacity of your electronics" do you rely on old ADS speakers for your judgments? Those were not the best option back in the day. Have you updated the crossovers? How old are those capacitors? If you built a phono pre you know that capacitors built now are better than the ones built in the 80s generally speaking. And I thought there were reasons why mfgs moved away from dome midranges. FWIW I have ADS 880s and L400. They are much further down the line than yours and they do have an interesting sound but nothing that would be call accurate.

I don't mean to bust your chops but when people take on the position of expert and make sweeping statements it does not hurt to examine things a little.

TD
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