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Lyra Kleos: tracking force/VTA/azimuth questions

I just bought a Lyra Kleos and I'm mounting it on a VPI JMW 12.7 (HRX turntable). I've done a bit of research, including Jonathan Carr's many posts here), so I know VTF is critical. I've done a trial set up to Lyra specs, and it doesn't sound right - piano in particular is distorted as if the cartridge is approaching break-up. I suspect the way I've set VTF. VPI recommends measuring VTF at the level of the record, which is impossible with the electronic scale I currently use - I simply put it on the platter and took readings, after first calibrating the scale, of course, and left it at 1.75 g. VPI says that simply measuring tracking force that way will under-represent actual VTF at the level of the record by a substantial amount because of the height of the gauge over the platter. Could that be the source of the problem I'm hearing? With other carts, I've done a couple of tests that seem to verify VPI's advice, so I plan to carefully measure the plinth to platter-top height, remove the platter, and build a temporary platform lower by exactly the thickness of the scale's pan. I'll put the scale on that, and then set VTF to Lyra's specs. This will result in VTF at the level of the record measuring correctly, when I put the scale on the mock-up platter, but NOT when I just slap the scale on the platter - it will measure higher. So my question is: does anyone see any potential problems flowing from my use of this process? I plan first to set VTA slightly tail high to approximate the magic 92 degrees SRA that seems to be the consensus of opinion these days.

Also, I'd like a bit of advice on using a fozgometer to measure azimuth. In my trial set up, I've never been able to get exactly the same readings left vs. right channel with the Foz; the best is a two-division difference, right higher in level than the left. I also get a one division reading, rather than zero, on the channel balance test, with both channel lights very faintly lit. Could this be a function of insufficient tracking force, or is there something else at play?

Thanks to any and all who might feel the spirit to respond (hopefully including you, Mr. Carr).
zachteich
jcarr
382 posts
 
Bruce: I'll have to send Joe at Audioquest a query. Right now he has an Etna on the 3D rather than a stylus, but the stylus profile is the same for both cartridges. The New Angle suspension, designed to equalize the compliance in all directions when tracking force is applied (and precisely align the coils to the magnets), is also present on both cartridges. So the overall trend (for various adjustments) should be similar (barring any differences between your tonearm and the 3D).

BTW, you really should be putting your recording cleaning machine into heavy use. Lack of doing so, is a key reason why Andy Kim was able to "improve" the sound of your Kleos. If you would get into the habit of using your RCM to get the LP grooves as clean as possible, and our SPT to clean off whatever gunk gets onto the stylus, the stylus will always be sparkling clean.

kind regards, jonathan
jcarr
382 posts
 
Oops! Right now Joe has an Etna on his 3D tonearm rather than a Kleos - and the Etna retains its own stylus (LOL).

My fingers must have been thinking of the album cover from Pink Floyd's Umma Gumma, or more recently, Pressure and Time by Rival Son (a band that is recommended listening if you like Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, David Coverdale or The Black Keys).

peace, jonathan carr
bifwynne
2,206 posts
 
Ok .. ok. I'll get off my butt and use the dumb VPI 16.5 RCM. I'll call Audioquest and order the cleaning fluid too.
pojuojuo
92 posts
 
One question about the cleaning fluid from Lyra. How much often is recomendable? Is necessary to switch off the phono preamp?

I have had this cartridge from 2 years ago amd I think is time to clean a little bit...
moonglum
619 posts
 
Bruce...it's not laziness m8. Music should be about listening and not turning the process into a domestic chore. All is not lost. You could take the "lazy route", as I did, and either buy from a supplier who automatically cleans all his pre-owned stock with a Keith Monks (new sleeves included in the price) or arrange for such a dealer to do them "in batch" for you. That way the regime reduces to the odd stylus wipe when required.

I was a Linn user for 25 years and their original philosophy was "Don't clean records, let the stylus do it for you", so rightly or wrongly I followed the advice for decades. Most of those (120g) 40 yr old LPs are, today, still super-quiet and sound extraordinarily good, so outwardly, little to no harm seems to have been done. (Perhaps different stylus profiles play different micro-contact areas of the groove) - rather like buying 2nd hand LPs, lightly scuffed, that had probably been "thrashed" and instead finding it to be a super-quiet breathtaking example of the pressing. :)
This type of experience is in stark contrast to a recent classical demo at a dealers in which they used brand new 180/200g vinyl, cleaned on the VPI 16.5 - or the next model up - to within an inch of its life (4 times per LP!) and they were unlistenable!!!! Massive clicks every few seconds!! The offending records were replaced with new copies and again meticulously cleaned with exactly the same result(!)
It's an experience I'd like to forget but will stay with me forever. (All the while I was thinking I could be listening to some of my cheap, noise-free second hand pressings :(
No reflection on the dealers - they're good guys and no fools. Sometimes I feel this 200g stuff is overkill. I'm no chemist but surely more volume means more MRA???? It can only emerge from 2 surfaces.
This doesn't mean I don't buy new vinyl...but the thought of finding pressings like the ones above scares me. ;)
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