Lyra Kleos: tracking force/VTA/azimuth questions

Bruce...it's not laziness m8. Music should be about listening and not turning the process into a domestic chore. All is not lost. You could take the "lazy route", as I did, and either buy from a supplier who automatically cleans all his pre-owned stock with a Keith Monks (new sleeves included in the price) or arrange for such a dealer to do them "in batch" for you. That way the regime reduces to the odd stylus wipe when required.

I was a Linn user for 25 years and their original philosophy was "Don't clean records, let the stylus do it for you", so rightly or wrongly I followed the advice for decades. Most of those (120g) 40 yr old LPs are, today, still super-quiet and sound extraordinarily good, so outwardly, little to no harm seems to have been done. (Perhaps different stylus profiles play different micro-contact areas of the groove) - rather like buying 2nd hand LPs, lightly scuffed, that had probably been "thrashed" and instead finding it to be a super-quiet breathtaking example of the pressing. :)
This type of experience is in stark contrast to a recent classical demo at a dealers in which they used brand new 180/200g vinyl, cleaned on the VPI 16.5 - or the next model up - to within an inch of its life (4 times per LP!) and they were unlistenable!!!! Massive clicks every few seconds!! The offending records were replaced with new copies and again meticulously cleaned with exactly the same result(!)
It's an experience I'd like to forget but will stay with me forever. (All the while I was thinking I could be listening to some of my cheap, noise-free second hand pressings :(
No reflection on the dealers - they're good guys and no fools. Sometimes I feel this 200g stuff is overkill. I'm no chemist but surely more volume means more MRA???? It can only emerge from 2 surfaces.
This doesn't mean I don't buy new vinyl...but the thought of finding pressings like the ones above scares me. ;)

Thanks Moonglum ... I feel somewhat vindicated. Having said that, it is my practice to wipe every record before play with a carbon fiber brush which does a nice job of picking up loose dust. I also use a gentle carbon fiber stylus brush to lift dust off the stylus before each play. On occassion, I am impressed when the stylus brush picks up a little puff of dust that I can see.

Jonathan Carr's suggestion about picking up Lyra stylus cleaning fluid is certainly a "can do" because it's not an OCD-PITA to use. If record cleaning wasn't such a PITA, I might be inclined to jump on it. My thought is to keep an eye out for a reasonably priced ultrasonic gizmo that will also dry the record. At the present time, I am simply not inclined to spend thousands of dollars on a RCM.

*********02-28-14: Pojuojuo
One question about the cleaning fluid from Lyra. How much often is recomendable? Is necessary to switch off the phono preamp?

I have had this cartridge from 2 years ago amd I think is time to clean a little bit...***********

I have used the Lyra SPT to clean my styli for several years with fantastic results. According to JCarr, it is a detergent/water solution, so no alcohol or other solvents that could dissolve the adhesive attaching the stylus tip to the cantilever.

The included brush is the best I have seen to apply the fluid to the stylus without accidentally slopping it onto the cantilever. You want to avoid getting this or any fluid on the cantilever shaft as the fluid can migrate up into the cartridge body through "capillary action".

Depending on how much gunk has built up on your stylus, repeated brushings with SPT may be needed to get it completely "ungunked". I would recommend removing the cartridge to do such a thorough cleaning. BE CAREFUL!

Re: frequency of use, I use the SPT about every 20 hours or so of play time, giving the stylus a gentle dip in a VP DustBuster before playing each side.

http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/vp_dustbuster_e.html

I once tried using the SPT before each side (giving it over 10 seconds to dry prior to play per the instructions) and found that it caused an excessive amount of goo-type buildup on the stylus (all LPs were previously cleaned with the Walker Audio Prelude fluids on a VPI 16.5 RCM), so I opted to use the VP DustBuster between sides and just a periodic thorough brushing with the SPT.

*******************03-01-14: Moonglum
This type of experience is in stark contrast to a recent classical demo at a dealers in which they used brand new 180/200g vinyl, cleaned on the VPI 16.5 - or the next model up - to within an inch of its life (4 times per LP!) and they were unlistenable!!!! Massive clicks every few seconds!! The offending records were replaced with new copies and again meticulously cleaned with exactly the same result(!) ***********

It is likely that the clicks you heard after cleaning were caused by static buildup during the cleaning process. I have found this to be an issue myself, but a zap of each side with a Zerostat after cleaning is an effective solution to removing the static buildup from the cleaning process.

As for letting the stylus clean the dirty grooves, it will certainly do that. However, you will hear this cleaning action while listening (bummer) and this practice is bound to significantly increase the rate of stylus wear IMO (huge bummer).

Certainly you are free to do as you please. Your records and your styli after all. So, please, no flames!:^)

Dave

Dave..good point about the static buildup - I'll pass that on to them but I'm sure they thought of it. I'm a long time Zerostat user myself (currently on No.5).
It's one procedure I don't skip on when handling discs. The regime of keeping LPs static free seems to have worked well in preserving records during those "non-cleaning" years. ;)
As the old saying goes, "If it ain't broke (i.e. you can't see or hear any contamination problem after 200 plays) why fix it?"
I know that the accounts of my early life are likely to horrify the Purist but knowledge wasn't as advanced then as it is now. For me it's now a grand experiment to test those old record's uncleaned longevity. :)
Just to add insult to injury they were always played without the lid on ;)

When it comes to saying how essential cleaning is, hindsight is the perfect tool. :)
Cheers.

I am resurrecting this thread because I found it helpful in setting up my recently-purchased Kleos.

I also wanted to mention a trick I use for setting azimuth that might be helpful for a few.  I use the record level meters on my Nakamichi CR-7 cassette deck to see the crosstalk levels for each channel of a test LP.  I first use pink noise on a test CD to ensure that both L and R meters of the Nak are correctly calibrated.  Then I use a test LP that has pink noise on each channel separately, and I note the peak levels of each channel on the Nak meters.  I adjust the azimuth until both channels show similar crosstalk (the difference between the level of each channel when sound is supposedly on one channel only).

I found this more satisfactory in setting up the Kleos than relying on a visual judgment of azimuth using the cartridge-on-a-mirror method.

It was interesting how sensitive the Kleos is to small differences in setup, especially antiskating.  I used the antiskating test bands on my Hi-Fi News and Record Review test LP to dial in the optimal antiskating force.  I have an Eminent Technology ET-2 linear-tracking turntable, so the only way to affect antiskating is through the level of the turntable.  Once everything else was adjusted, it turned out that the optimal antiskating corresponded to the turntable being perfectly level, as judged from a carpenter's level on the turntable platter.

Only after doing all this was I able to eliminate some left-channel distortion I was hearing with multiple LPs that I had not heard with my previous cartridges.

So if you have a tape deck with an adequate level meter, that's an alternative to more sophisticated test equipment for adjusting cartridge azimuth.

The Kleos was pre-owned and supposedly played for under 50 hrs.  The seller, Wayne's Audio, told me it would need a further 20-30 hrs. break-in, since he had not been using it for a while.  Already though, I am impressed with its resolution and timbral neutrality.  And since it tracks under 2 gm VTF, it should be gentle on my records.  I also like how the cantilever projects about 1/4 inch in front of the cartridge's body.  That makes it easier to clean the stylus and accurately cue records.

Has anyone else experienced that a cartridge that hasn't been used for a year needs a second break-in period?