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Please critique my Delphi set up, bass not right

I have just put enough hours on my new phono pre amp to really enjoy my new (to me) Oracle Delphi.
It's great but as I didn't plan all the parts that well I can hear a weak link. For sure my tone arm needs improving, but what else???
My main complaint, if i can call it that, is a the bass response on non classical music. I.E. the new Beatles box set that just came out for example. It's supposed to be a stellar recording. The bass could be tighter for sure, a lot tighter. It's not what i would call sloppy, far from it, just not nearly defined enough for my taste.
So, I have a Goldring 1042 attached to a OEM (Moth) 202 with the one piece Cardas wiring. It runs on a Oracle Delphi MK1. FYI the MK1 has the suspension kit just done with the new aluminum board and new platter spindle bearing and thrust plate. It seems, like its set up right, i.e. tracking angle, bias, weight etc. But as I am new to vinyl I'm not sure if i'm missing something.
I have a Primare 32 phono stage and a Primare 32 preamp, also new.( really really like these by the way, they replaced a Classe pre 47.5) I use the new W4S ST 1000 "D" class amp to power a vintage but perfectly conditioned pair of B&W 801 matrix. The B&W 's are on sound anchor stands in case that was your first thought. (massive bass difference)
My other front end piece is an Oppo 95 disc player. When I play the the Oppo there are two main differences. The gain is much higher and the bass is more controlled.
I have several different cables and wires to connect and have it set up to my taste. I can hear slight differences in tone between them all but nothing to make even a medium differences, in fact I dare say it's 6 of one and half of the other, sorry to offend the big buck spenders with that comment but i have pretty good ears, so i'd rather leave it at that and sort out the Oracle.
FYI the Primare Phono is set to MM for the Goldring 1042 and the input impedance is set to 47 K.

My questions are,,,,why the big gain difference between the Oppo and the Oracle?
Secondly, I read about a couple of outboard crossovers available for the B&W's but the bass thru the Oppo is stellar, really stellar so even though they may help I gotta think maybe the low end tone arm and MM Goldring???? Thats strictly a guess as Vinyl is not my thing. Also as my room is not perfect, it's too small for the B&W's, the Oppo plays the bass quite well while the Oracle does not.
Although in case anyone is wondering I'll take the vinyl hands down any day even with its flaws and inconvenience. I have never been so involved with the music. Midnight has never arrived so soon.
I have tried some SACD's (Jazz at the Pawn Shop Vol 2) thru the Oppo as well but really it's just "more " bad if I can describe CD that way.

I have a good budget for a new tone arm and new cartridge and its been suggested to get the Rega 1000, that would be the top of the budget more or less as after that I'd rather spend the difference say between the SME 5 and the Rage 1000 on new vinyl.
Any and all comments welcome, and thanks very much in advance for your help!!!
cheers
Steve
128x128alberta_steve
manitunc
795 posts
 
I use an SME345 on my Oracle Delphi V SE. Match made in heaven. Oracle has a similar SME out now, but it is pricey.
As for the Goldring, 6.5mv is pretty high, even for a MM. Most run around 5mv. If I was going to use a MM, it would be the Ortofon 2m Black, which works well on my Transrotor Fat Bob/Audiomods IV.
zd542
5,339 posts
 
The one thing a lot of older recordings lack is bass. Have you compared CD's to LP's directly; using the same exact recordings? For example, people will use a remastered CD and compare it to an original recording on LP. They both need to be originals or the same remaster, in order to have a fair comparison.
davide256's avatar
davide256
399 posts
 
I'm checking to see if you have made any of the classic turntable setup errors.

low bass feedback is the biggest enemy to TT bass response
after improper setup. You should get decent bass with quality TT you have.

1) is your TT on a rigid but lightweight structure? Bass travels easiest through massive objects, light weight but rigid structures block better. If on carpet, be sure the stand has carpet spikes.

2) do you have your TT away from room corners and at least 5 feet away from your speakers? the classic system photo with TT between speakers is one of the worst locations possible, second only to a room corner.

Never had an Oracle, my understanding is that they can be finicky to setup. Dealer house call might be the cure
alberta_steve's avatar
alberta_steve OP
53 posts
 
Zd542
You are very right. although my arm is not so good, and am planning to upgrade it, I'm finding because i have B&W 801 matrix speakers I hear absolutely every thing in the recording. IE a poorly master base track in the recording, sounds just like that. You would be surprised how poorly the new Beatles boxed set in vinyl sounds. What a poor job they did. And now I found out they mastered it from the same master as used for the CD set!!!
I have some new MO FI records and the quality is unbelievable. When I play classical on test pressings it's the same stellar sound. The better i get my table set up the more clearly you hear every thing both right and wrong with the vinyl. Regardless i will take it anyway over digital, even with all the inconveniences and noise. If I did not have an Oppo 95 I wouldn't even play CD, such is the difference.
I did find out from B&W that for the lowest 1/2 octave the speaker is designed to use a Bass Alignment filter (really a high pass filter)
So in the end all is good with the table, I'm just discovering whats good and bad with my recording. i was for warned by a fairly experience dealer that with the Matrix 801 its very source dependant, hence it's reputation as a good studio monitor.
zd542
5,339 posts
 
Alberta_steve,

I have a pretty good idea as to what you are talking about. I had the 802 Matrix S3's. They are very similar to the 801's. I believe the mid and hf drivers are the same. The speakers have a great midrange. Its very clean and fast & fun to listen to. The tweeter is not so much fun; at least for me. I found it to be too harsh and ended up going with other speakers.

If you enjoy music like classical, its really an excellent speaker. With modern recordings, you just get too much vocal sibilance.

As far as the issues you have with recordings like the Beatles reissues you mention, I may be able to give you some useful advice. Keep in mind, though, this is just my own personal opinion and nothing more. When it comes to vinyl, I personally feel that it only pays to get full analog recordings. Analog recordings that have been digitally re-masterd or recordings that were recorded in digital to begin with, I tend to stay away from for 2 reasons. 1. I almost always prefer the origional version over the remaster. 2. Either way, even if the production is good, any time a recording is digital at some point in the chain, it sounds like better digital, not analog. At least to me. Given that, I would rather go with an SACD, or something similar.
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