SP10 MK3 recommendation

Dear Peterayer: I speak on 10.5" against 12" not 9" that has additional problems.

Btw, could be that an specific cartridge could " performs " ( that you like it more. ) better in a 12" tonearm than in a 10.5" but IMHO mostly because the added 12" colorations and not because any 12" real advantages because IMHO there is not.

Of course if we already own a 12" tonearm we have to believe we are with a self induction that this is the " one " because is the one I have and I paid for it.

Normally when I'm talking on audio subjects I try hard to stay unbiased in anyway but in favor of music home reproduction. I'm not married with any single audio factor/characteristic/parameter and always open to learn and change if necesary.

I make comparisons/evaluations against very precise targets where certainly one of those targets is not " what I like ".

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Raul, I'm just saying that in my system the 12" SME V-12 sounded more like real instruments than the 9" arm. I own both and paid for both, so the only thing that matters to me is which one I prefer. "What I like" for me means what sounds more real in my system, to my ears. It's very subjective. If that is not your target, what is? I use live classical music as my reference and frequently hear concerts and then gauge the quality of my system against that reference. Others may aim for numbers and that is fine. I don't know what you mean by "12" colorations."

Dear Peterayer: Your comparison on the V-12 against the V is not exactly: apples against apples. The V12 internal wiring is different to the V as is the tonearm bearing and the arm wand to stay with an almost similar effective mass as the V: 12grs against 11grs.

IMHO the diferences you heard are coming from a different build design, even that looks similar externally, more than the 12" length per se against the 9".

In amedium like the analog LP the tonearm has to deal with the reality of non perfect LP: warps and off center LPs and this is the day by day tonearm works in each single LP through all the LP tracks.
Well, the 12" are in disadvantages against the shorter ones that has a faster response to warps and off center problems, the 12" has slower response for deal with those LP problems and that means higher distortions/colorations.

Maybe your 12" tonearm could be better than your 9" one but IMHO not because its length but because a better design and execution design.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Raul, With all due respect, you are wrong about the SME bearings and wiring. As Riccardo Muti said, " CON ME, NO!" A very good friend of mine was a close associate of the late Alastair Roberson-Aikman, the founder of SME. As such he has intimate knowledge of the SME products and their technology. He owns an SME 30 with V arm and an SME 30/12 with V-12 arm. He has had the 30 for 19 years. He told me this morning that the bearings in the V-series arms changed about ten years ago, and today, the bearings in the standard V and the V-12 arms are the exact same. The internal wire in the V series changed also around that time and today, the current V and V-12 arms have the same internal wiring. My SME V and V-12 are both current models, though I just sold the former. Of course the arm wand is longer and therefore different, and this is accounted for by the greater effective mass.

I can not tell you what is responsible for the difference in sound that I heard between the V and the V-12, but geometry would seem to be the biggest change. The position of the counterweight is closer to the pivot on the V-12, so that reduction in the moment of inertia may play a role. What I hear is less distortion, a cleaner, smoother sound, larger soundstage, slightly greater frequency extension and an overall more realistic presentation. This was confirmed by some friends who also heard the comparison. The SME site does claim a 27% reduction in tracking error with the longer arm, though this is I think based on the SME 312S arm.

I don't know of other 9" and 12" arms from the same manufacturer that are so similar to each other as the SME V series arms are, though there may be some. I think that directly comparing these arms and hearing the results speak for themselves. We can each decide for ourselves. Over time the audiophile community will see if the current popularity of the 12" arms are simply a fad as you suggest.

Are you sure your Sony PUA-237 will outperform the V-12? I don't think either of us has actually heard that comparison, so I will not make any such claims. I also will not make any claims about other 12" arms that I have not heard. I think a few Audiogon members are getting ready to compare the new 12" Triplanar, 12" Phantom Elite and SME V12. That should make for some interesting listening and discussion.

Dear Peterayer: These are the SME numbers on tracking error:

for the V12 Maximum tracking error 0.009°/mm

for the V " " " " " 0.012 degrees x mm.

I took the values from the SME site.

Now, do you think that you or any one can hear for sure the difference on quality performance between the V12 and the V where the difference in tracking error in between is only:

0.003 deggrees per mm. ?!?!?!?!?!

IMHO no one can't and not only that: I think no one audio system has the resolution to do it.

In the other side: how do you know that any performance difference came from that: 0.003 mm????

In the other side, I can asure you that even on the tonearm/cartridge set up that 0.003° is higher than it, so why to argue on something that we can get even in the cartridge/tonearm set up?

Btw, do you want to try/test a 9" tonearm that outperform almost any 12" tonearm?, well buy the vintage Sony PUA-237 that you could find out on the net for less than 500.00. Test it and then share with us your experiences about.

12" tonearms and longer ( everything the same. ) makes more harm than good to the quality performance level in any audio system. There is no perfect tonearms, every one has its own trade-offs and IMHO the 12" ones trade-offs are " ofensive " in higher way to the music reproduction than the shorter ones.

Any one can do what any one want it. You can followed the wrong/commercial AHEE advise or follow what your brain and common sense dictate in favor of the music.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.