Brinkmann vs TW Acustic

Dgad,

I not bashing just asking questions for clarification, I don't see anything wrong with that.

I'll gladly answer yours, see below;

1- I don't know what MBL has to say about pairing my such up with my VAC 450 Statement amps, best you ask them. The rest of your babble in relation to this is just that, showing a lack of experience. You can put the question forth to Ralph of Atma-Sphere whom will educate you in the fact MBL's once loaded in a room aren't that hard to drive. You can also speaker with Ken Steven's of CAT whom built his 100 watt tube mono blocks around MBL's.

2- I purchased my table from a TW dealer, I was the first consumer to own it. I also purchased a 10.5 arm from a dealer, again first consumer to own.

3- Minus K optimized, wow! you really have no clue because you would never make statements or ask such.

4- Your last paragraph is just stupid, why is it TW fan boys all seem to be so defensive including your self as I'm reading and BS. I'm not a MS group guy, don't care about Syntax and TW issues, that's between them. I don't have an axe to grind and nothing against Jeff or Thomas. I'm sharing my experience as you and others do and just asking questions in relation to TW product as a whole so kindly answer.

Now I have some questions;

My first question;

1- Simply answer my questions put forth in my above posting or are you afraid for some reason.

2- You asked me so I'll ask you, who did you buy your TW tables from? My understanding is that you have a history of trading watches for product, is that true? because there is a story's going around.

Dear friends: If we take any TT to " disect " it we will find out all its defects/faults and its virtues and if we can go deeper on our research we could find out some other unknow virtues/faults of the item.

Here the unsatisfied TW owners posting no single TT virtue but only its faults.
Why is this?, makes no sense to me not be aware of one TW virtue and post it even that I don't like the item.

In the other side:

+++++ " without knowing anything... rpm 33.333334 or 33.333333 when the Timeline drifts the difference is MUCH higher... lousy Pulleys...none of you seems to have an idea what that means ... internal damping ..also no idea from all of you except Dev ... belt quality...and so on and on and on " +++++

Seems to me that for some of you everything is: before the Timeline and after the Timeline and IMHO this is an error.

To those TT owners where they can change trhough a pitch control the TT speed try to have this experience:

first time in the morning make a tiny/small change on speed turning the pitch TT control and for one week listen to that same speed and at the end of the week ask you if you are unsatisfied or not with what you are listening it.
Then return to the original ( Timeline based. ) speed and after 30 minutes ask your self if you like it more on this way or with that tiny speed change.

You will be surprised on your answer. Please don't try to attack at this moment this " experience/test " but after you did it.
Btw, it is not important if that tiny speed change was for lower or faster speed.

Now, on this speed subject: Lewm pointed out that we don't know if during the LP overall recording process the LP was cutted at 33.3333333 rpm or at 33.33 rpm or what ever so: how any one of us can comes here to say that because a TT did not pass the Timeline test we are hearing something " different " and not only different but something that dislike the more because of that speed deviation?.

I think we can't do it what we can do it is that there is no excuse for a 20K+ TT not fit accurate and stable speed and from this point of view seems to me that the TW is a faulty design because it does not match " perfect speed ".

At that and up TT price level any TT has to be " near perfect " in all main TT characteristics that have influence on the generated sound under any circumstance during playback. We can't ask for less.

Syntax posted: " none of you have an idea what that means " in reference on some TT characterisitcs and that could be true with some of us but we are only customers not TT designers to know everything about. We have to judge n audio item as " listeners ".

Even he does not know everything about and that's why he owns what he owns on all his system items and that's why he is a system " changer " over the time: from SS to tubes and again to SS and the like with his cartridges and tonearms, as I said over his system.

Ebm, don't assume that Syntax knows everything because he pictured in his system two Olympos boxes, money means nothing but kin owledge level, skills and how any one use that knowledge/skills.

Yes, thye TW designers has a land to improve their design but this is true with almost any other audio item. We customers are in " motion " looking always for the best, so we are asking every day for the best for all audio item manufacturers.

Btw, I'm sure of something about TW: if the desig n is so bad as the unsatisfied owners pointed out sooner or latter will disappear from the market if don't fixed before.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Dear Pani: PRAT, well if we take the P for peace that characterisitc IMHO is not a music characteristic. Music live music ina near field is IMHO everything but peace.

I don't know whom " invented " PRAT expression to refer to music sound.

For me and is the way I understand MUSIC live music is a whole experience formed by:

first than all Rythmum, with out that music can't " moves " us can't wake up our deepest " feelings /emotions ". Ryhtmum involve almost all in live music.
Other music main characteristic is the " natural color and its shades " that only music has , this natural color means that music has to be neutral that its colorations are natural and well balanced over the frequency range.
The third main characteristic is that " natural agresiveness " undistorted agresiveness that belongs only to live music.
and last but not less important the: power of music, that power that we can not only hear but feel the same ( in different gradation ) from a drum than from the violin or a triangle. This power of the music where we can know exist only the air between the music and us. This is what gives the music our feeling of " dynamics, transient speed " and the like that's an unbeatable live music characteristic.

That is for me, a simple listener not a musician, MUSIC and that's what I'm asking when I listen to music in a live event that of course we can't achieve in almost any way in a home audio system.

Of course that exist a gradation on those MUSIC characteristic and that's why exist MUSIC with bad ryhtmum or with natural one, that's why exist over colored MUSIC sounds and acurate/non-distorted MUSIC sound.

Yes, instruments makes no music but are a critical factor of what we are hearing. Part of the music natural color comes from there as it comes a part of that rythmum.

MUSIC is a subject very complex, more complex that the analog home experience, that invloves not only the instrument quality, presentation stage/venue, the " firm hand " of the leader group/director and many other factors where maybe the most important part belongs to each one player " skills/emotions " during playbak and obviously we can't diminish our each one " mood " during the listening music session.

Music is an universal language and we have not to have studies of any kind to understand: music. Music is so perfect that it takes by it self the " tools " for any one can understand it.

PRAT or no PRAT has no importance because MUSIC speaks by it self. PRAT is an audiophile denomination.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Ebm, it doesn't take rocket science to set-up a TW table but then again you would not know because as you stated above you had someone else do that for you so you really are the clueless one. Can you actually offer any constructive information besides you normal silliness.

Adding to that Ebm I still owned my AC3 at that time when I was inquiring about a tour and was looking to purchase the BN table something that you can only dream of owning.

Still no one has answered, is there in fact a TW facility and if so where specifically in Germany, it appears ghostly.

It's sad that some of you "mostly TW owners" are so close minded on this topic of product but very opinionated about others, all one needs to do is read your past threads so what would one call that?

I personally owned numerous TW product up to their flagship pce, how many of you can say that say I can and will convey my findings be it good or bad.

I am providing first hand information in a discussion, if you take it as bashing or personal well then you have the problem.

These forums are for discussions, I provide first hand while some of you are flying on the seat of your pants and so full of sh..

When looking at product "any" nothing is perfect and the usual is to discuss so improvements can be made.

As per Dgad's reply above, he says he has had numerous versions.

Why would there be numerous versions?

Dgad mentioned his table now is locked in on the 33.3 speed and said he can hear the difference, if the speed was not a concern as so many of you seem to babble about then why would Thomas work on such and why would Dgad write such.

Dgad said the latest version now holds an approx. 20 hour charge. Wonder which version this is as mine only held 4-5 hours, far cry from 20 hours. I sent mine back to Thomas and he said he checked everything but upon arrival still the same.

So why would there be a latest versions if all was good.

AC tables that most of you own you don't even know what version it is, I bet most are the older version with the old noisy bearing which can not be upgraded due to the substantial redesign so you best just get a new table but if you can't hear the difference as most "glow about" really doesn't matter does it.

Why do you think there was such a radical costly redesign?

Come on guys .... wake up already

In the end as long as you are happy with your sound, not looking to improve, don't kmow or can't hear the differences than so be it, individuals whom I know are looking for improvement's just like Dgad otherwise he would not be trying different versions would he.

I'm thinking of buying another TW BK to actually see if there are any improvements :-)