Brinkmann vs TW Acustic

I have seen some audiophiles go complete circles in TT's, finally ending up where they started

Good point, I've met a few such owners. But don't judge them, not everyone is really looking for the best possible reproduction, they all say, they do (they need a reason for spending money and that is ok) but they also want something they "like". Be it the color, be it the Design, be it a listing in Stereophile Class A, be it a price the neighbor can't afford, be it a limited Edition...be it the ambition to be a respected Audiophile member because the turntable is 45k and everyone congratulates ...

You would have to believe that Dev had heard many other turntables before investing in the Raven brand........from his numerous posts, you can see that he had.
So the Ravens at many stages.....sounded better to him than other turntables?
Then suddenly.....not?
That's fair enough.

I think, everyone of us starts with the same positive feeling, or hope when buying something (no one buys something when he knows before that it is nothing special)...after some time the splitting begins, but that is an individual one, some still like what they have (for whatever reason) and some discover after some time that the unit has some flaws which can disturb more and more (I am one of those, I am not Jesus and of course, my priorities are not shared from everyone. But there is a difference between "don't like it" or "there is definitely something which is done better from other manufacturers").
That is normally a basement for discussions which can show a way for the reader he can use. It is his decision anyway.

What happens is they "upgrade" but the cycle of discontent from mismatching and poor set up starts all over again.

That is very common to say (the owner is too unexperienced, too stupid, he has 10 left thumbs ) but from my experience in the last 15 years, it is not matching. Except you have a real problematic design like the LP12 with its wood frame, springs etc. but the most units out there are the way they are. Maybe you can win a bit with leveling :-), but not 50% gain in Performance when a turntable is level and running.
What sounds bad is normally bad.
What sounds wrong is normally wrong.
(Same with demos .. room is so bad...mains is so lousy... I heard demos at exhibition shows which were stunning... just an example, I never heard a Mark Levinson demo which made me sit longer than 3 minutes but they sell / sold a lot. So, I am simply not the right customer for it. The difference is probably, that I can say why I don't like it and what kind of electronics can do that better, but that is my opinion. Can be shared or not.
It is very, very difficult to go back, to be honest to yourself, saying," oh man, I burned 30k with my whatever". Had this situation 12 years ago when I got an invitation from a record collector and I got a demo I never heard before... and no DIY stuff, no ultra rare units, all with available brands.. but simply with units which were able to mere the curtain... all the hours when driving home I thought about it and to make the story short, I knew, there are only 2 ways:
To deny what I heard (would save me a lot of money) or to realize what went on (costing me min. 70K)...I made my decision.

I also know an example from an experienced (say, he spent thousands of $$$$) Audiophile, sitting in a top demo and finally he said: "this kind of soundstage is filled with so many information, it does confuse me. I don't like it".

Anyway, I think it is a difference to read about design solutions which have some serious flaws (the reader has also 2 choices, he can deny it, or he can check it) or you get these competent 1-Liners from Ebm.
Well no. We are Audiophiles, that means, there is always a third option. A Dgad option, always avoiding to talk about a problem, instead to move the discussion in a total different direction (Personal Problems, Hate, nice guy being treated badly, wrong delivered, Set Up made from uncertified Set Up Specialists, not owning the latest version (it is the 8th version from an identical product but there are differences only a few know) and so on and on...
Don't get me wrong: I love all 3 versions, but for MY decision I have only one.

When I read his thread I am reminded of the middle ages when someone (!) discovered that earth is not flat. I think the guy used a spyglass (Timeline) for his discovery a least it supported his research. Learning from some postings in this thread questioning the ability of the Timeline or of some units with deviances (??? just assumptions, never proved) couldn't it be that the leaders of the defense line are slipping into the same role as the FLAT supporters in those days did?

It is the spyglass which is the problem! Isn't it? Damn it!

Goldeneraguy,

if you can read and comprehend then why make such ridiculous false accusations asking again when I have already addressed such.

If you know so much tell me and others whom I purchased my TW product from if it was not from a TW dealer, if you can't then shut up already about this.

It really isn't all that tuff you know;

1- Thomas is the manufacture of the TW product correct.
2- The product supposedly is manufactured in Germany and ships from there to the US correct.
3- The product would be shipped to Jeff for any North American sales and he wouldn't just pass it along without getting his cut right.
4- So who would I have gotten my BN table and TW product including 10.5 arm from if Jeff wasn't the US source.
5- Thomas wouldn't do any back door deals would he.
6- If Thomas doesn't then the source would have to be Jeff right

Hello, it really make me wonder about some of you guys. :-)


Yes I love my music do you, who are you to preach to me when you make such ridiculous lame accusations. I really don't care what you or others are saying because most have no clue and just ramble on with no actual facts, I have been to many members places after reading their rave postings to only be disappointed left wondering.

It's important to provide information for others reading so they can see both sides know what they are in for.

How many of you knew what I have conveyed, obviously TW knew there were issues otherwise why such dramatic changes and not just simple tweaks, some of you guys are just puppets on strings and so naïve.

I'm replying my personal findings that I found while owning TW product, numerous individuals have been trying to discredited and switch over to another topic just as you are in your last postings.

Lets keep to the facts at hand which I have mention, I will gladly debate. Even Dgad another BN owner was nice enough to admitted some of my findings "short falls of the BN" are true. "Speed issue and battery" Reading I think he may not have the latest version bearing either which would mean ...

I know it sucks to find these things out when some of you feel you have the best but that's life, don't take it so personally it's only product. If you are happy then why worry, be happy and enjoy listening :-)

Dear dev,

I recall sometime "years" back that your name came up in conversation, don't you write for a German analog mag.

One would think that you should disclose such, was your table a long term loaner. Did you purchase outright prior or did Thomas provide such for you to try

Huh? I have never written and I will not write for any audio mag. I'm just a simple guy who likes to read in some audio forums. And I have no relations to Thomas Woschnik, except that I am a customer of TW Acustic.

Or as you would say / you said to another participant of this thread:

...your assumptions are just that and not facts...

and

Now read it slowly;

THAT'S AN OUT RIGHT LIE, who told you that CRAP! You need to get your information correct before posting such malicious false information.

So you THINK you know so much who did I buy mine from?

Move Along, Nothing To See Here. ;)
Sincerely
Blam!

Thuchan, I definitely would like to hear your view as well regarding Timeline. I am not denying that TW does not pass Timeline test. Syntax has been avoiding a direct question that I asked a couple of time but may be you could answer it then if you think I am blaming Timeline. Nowhere did I state that Timeline is inaccurate and it is definitely has less tolerance than Kab Strobe. However, it was proposed that TW problem is that it does not have adequate speed accuracy because it does not pass Timeline test eventhough it acheives speed accuracy within tolerance of Kab Strobe.
If this is true, wouldn't you say that most people who are listening to turntable before Timeline's invention are most likely not hearing proper speed either. How would you achieve speed precision on a turntable to the level of Timeline before it was invented. Was there any other way to calibrate turntable to such level. Even now, not everybody is using Timeline to calibrate their turntables. Is that mean that people with no Timeline are not hearing their turntable properly and are just as clueless as TW owner?
I tried Timeline on Micro Seiki SX-777 Air and compared its built in strobe to Timeline and it also failed Timeline test just like TW. Is that mean Micro Seiki is also worthless until Timeline comes along?

Do you think that the majority of records since its inception has been produced to the tolerance of Timeline's precision?

I don't deny precision of Timeline but question its real world's value. May be Syntax should start a holy war against Kab strobes and I assume most other strobes in general and preach that Timeline is the only acceptable tool but for some reasons, he seems to be keeping Timeline as a tool against TW only. I wonder why?